Not Criminals?

[Nick Grana]

Happened to be downtown today renewing my car tags when I drove by a herd of people demonstrating. I stopped at a red light and saw most of the people were Hispanic. Many held signs saying,
"We are not criminals".
Pretty sure it was about the U.S. immigration policy and Mexico. Big subject right now. Some of the rhetoric just floors me. If one breaks the law, it is a criminal offense of varying degrees. So if someone is in this country illegally, then they are criminally wrong regardless of the reasoning. I thought for a moment of challenging those signs, but then the light turned green and off to home I went. I am from immigrant grandparents but it was done legally.
Need reality check to see if I am thinking along the correct lines. I did jaywalk today so am also a criminal.:cool:
http://images6.theimagehosting.com/antiwar_protesters.jpg (http://www.theimagehosting.com):happy:

[DonBB]

If you came here illegally, you have no rights as you are not a citizen. You broke the law in coming here the way you did, and continue to break the law by not registering. Do you realize there was actually a law passed back in the 70's that says all immigrants must register once a year. This law still stands today, but you don't here anyone talking about it. I don't agree with making all illegal immigrants felons, its just not feasible. I do agree with making all illegal immigrants felons that don't register within a certain period of time. What is so hard about this? We have let you stay illegally long enough, now register, or get deported. I really cannot understand why any American would have a problem with this.

[Mr Bean]

If you came here illegally, you have no rights as you are not a citizen. You broke the law in coming here the way you did, and continue to break the law by not registering. Do you realize there was actually a law passed back in the 70's that says all immigrants must register once a year. This law still stands today, but you don't here anyone talking about it. I don't agree with making all illegal immigrants felons, its just not feasible. I do agree with making all illegal immigrants felons that don't register within a certain period of time. What is so hard about this? We have let you stay illegally long enough, now register, or get deported. I really cannot understand why any American would have a problem with this.

I'm not sure whether you may have mis-interpreted Nick's post there.

[DonBB]

Understand that I'm not directing it AT Nick, when I say "you," I mean the illegals. I'm in agreement with him, (for once).

[Mr Bean]

Understand that I'm not directing it AT Nick, when I say "you," I mean the illegals. I'm in agreement with him, (for once).

Ahhhhhhhhh

All becomes clear once again. I am in the middle of the immigration process to Canada. Just the medicals to clear and we should be on our way. A lot of people, including family, have said that we should just go and sort out the politics and red tape later.

My opinion is that I DO NOT agree with way people are allowed to wander in and out of the UK with such ease so why should I abuse another countries entry requirements.

The way people come in and out of the UK it's almost like they could be clocking in and out of work.

It might be long winded but following protocol is the only safe way of doing this type of thing.

A simple speeding ticket could be your ticket home.

[Vercades]

When another wolf wants to join a pack of wolves, that lone wolf has to obey by the terms of the pack. Usually involves eating last and keeping it's head low to the ground at all times around the pack. If one a lone wolf doesn't do this usually the whole pack will rush it and tear the wolf from limb to limb. BUt, there are warnings given too before it gets that bad.

Sorry, Kind of a Wilson moment. (Home Improvement)

[DonBB]

???

[Vercades]

http://www.imdb.com/title/tt0101120/

[Snurfen]

Post #6 - top marks Jeremy.
Is that a quote from "Dances with Wolves" or something? (please don't say something that profound came from Home Improvement :p)

[Vercades]

It actually came from a documentry I saw on Discovery channel, a man in the last few years of his life spent it studying the social structure of wolves in the wild.

I took from it that if you want to join a community you have to go on their terms not yours.

Illegals could learn soemthing from it too..

[Nick Grana]

I'm in agreement with him, (for once).
:D Yes, you validated my point exactly. I agree with all your points (for once)
including not to make felonies of illegals. It made big headlines recently when a few sweeps by the INS caught not only the illegal aliens, but the employers of these illegals also. Then the employers have to show just cause that the people hired proved in some way that they were legal. Big mess all around.
The enforcement of the borders has not yet been determined. Some want to build a wall from the Pacific coast to the Gulf coast. Good luck.
Some, as the Minutemen (http://www.washingtontimes.com/national/20050418-123652-1825r.htm) have their ideas, the National Guard has been suggested. I think the Guard was used a couple years ago and after shooting an innocent, nothing was heard about that again.
It's just another of the many things the United States has to work out.
Again, good luck.:cool:

[renegade600]

I hope there were cameras at all the rallies taking pictures. And I hope the government will arrest all the illegals, they can find and send them back. I hope that all the companies that hired the illegals be fined and the owners are put into jail. I hope the illegals are considered felons and laws are passed that if they entered the stated a second time, they are placed in prison for life. I hope rules are put into place where you have to prove your citizenship before getting any type of government benefit, the use of any medical facitity and to attend school and if caught using false papers thrown into prison.

I have no pity for those illegals who cannot understand what it means to be an american. Besides if they want to protest and have mass demostrators to show their power, why can they not do it down in mexico demanding better wages and better living conditions there.

The problem is if we bend the rules for mexicans, we will have to bend the rules for other nations like china who also has a large population of illegals in the states. When will they start holding their rallies? Will they get the same pity as the mexicans? If not then those who pity the mexicans are nothing but racist hypocrites.

[Tom]

E Pluribus Unum.

[lufbra]

I hope rules are put into place where you have to prove your citizenship before getting any type of government benefit

Please ellaborate on this?

After living here in the US since '92, I've paid the taxes that the US require of me (state/federal), yet I'm not a citizen of the country, nor have I yet found the need to be, just like many others, just like if an American moved to another country to live, and desired not to become a citizen of that country.

[oracle128]

It made big headlines recently when a few sweeps by the INS caught not only the illegal aliens, but the employers of these illegals also. Then the employers have to show just cause that the people hired proved in some way that they were legal. Big mess all around."I expected my government to be doing their job. I assumed that, if he was an illegal immigrant, he would have been locked up or deported by now."

How's that for proof?

We have a similar situation down here. In fact, I think we may have started the whole thing, what with Woomera detention centre (http://en.wikipedia.org/wiki/Woomera_Immigration_Reception_and_Processing_Centr e) and all. I'm all for escaping a war-torn country and started a new life somewhere else, but if you want to jump queues and barge your way into our society, don't have a sook when we lock you up. There are processes for entering a country and integrating into it's society, if you're too lazy or stupid to follow them, you deserve to be locked up or deported.

[Nick Grana]

Wow. I definitely will not beat myself anymore for thinking a little harsh toward something as this when some have enough cold harshness for everyone. Not alone, mind you, as many feel the same way.
I do not know the laws of staying in this country. I have friends from other countries, Peru, Venezuela, etc, that have work visas that have to be renewed at certain intervals. Some are two years and some are six. With that visa they can obtain drivers license, Social Security card, pay taxes, etc.
They can apply for citizenship after a certain period and meet the proper standards and requirements.
Nothing made my grandparents prouder than becoming American Citizen's.
I finally agreed with BUSH (http://www.cnn.com/2006/US/04/28/bush.anthem.ap/index.html) (another WOW) when he said the American National Anthem should be sung in English and not taught in Spanish.
This country uses a term called a 'melting pot' to mean many peoples coming together to become one. But now that pot can be burned, boiled, and hermetically sealed for a time, but when dumped out, every color, race, creed comes out separate and wanting distinction from the rest. And one wonders why racism is still alive and flourishing?
So much for E. Pluibus Unum, "From Many, One".
So much for "United We Stand". Individualism or grouping is left because few don't want to be considered part of the whole. With that, I'll jump in my hole.:cool: :D

[renegade600]

Please ellaborate on this?

After living here in the US since '92, I've paid the taxes that the US require of me (state/federal), yet I'm not a citizen of the country, nor have I yet found the need to be, just like many others, just like if an American moved to another country to live, and desired not to become a citizen of that country.

you are right, I should have said prove their citizenship or prove they are here legally.

[Nick Grana]

you are right, I should have said prove their citizenship or prove they are here legally.
That's the argument of the employers that say social security cards were shown. But we all know how easy it is to get a social security card. Many of the numbers were traced to dead people or non-existent people altogether.
Where does the buck stop? Tough situation.:cool:

[renegade600]

Many of the numbers were traced to dead people or non-existent people altogether.

thats it, they can be traced.

personally I don't think a birth certificate or a social security card should be used for identification purpose. You cannot id anyone with them without some sort of background check. You need a picture id.

Which brings us to more food for though...what if the Bush administration was wanting the american people to get mad at the demostrations. Mad enough where they would demand the government to have better means of identifying legals and american citizens - A national ID card. Something that Bush has been wanting since 9-11 but the public has been opposed to. Now with the demostrations, maybe the public will now be more willing to accept a national ID card.

another conspiracy :-)

[black mirror]

We have a problem in the Uk with migrant workers coming from Poland and the Eastern Block..... I have nothing against them persionally but i do wish our government would at least make sure they speak English,
I have 2 Polish woman just joined work and it is so hard trying to communicate with them.. very hard work

[Miz]

Hmmm...why can the credit card people identify a bad/invalid/stolen card within seconds or, at most, minutes of its being scanned but the Social Security people take months or years to identify a bogus card?

Either the SS Administration needs better computers and usable software or they should outsource SS card validation to one of the credit card outfits. :D

[Nick Grana]

Either the SS Administration needs better computers and usable software or they should outsource SS card validation to one of the credit card outfits.
Ain't that the truth.:sad: Try to get something done through the SSA and it takes forever, if it gets done at all without stomping on one of their desks.:D
I always use the "squeaky wheel gets the grease" approach with everything.
Social Security Cards say right on them they are not to be used as ID.
If you go to the SSA office to get a card, what do they ask for? A drivers license. And how to get a drivers license? Proof of birth or social security card. It's a circle jerk.:cool:

[DELTREE]

My 2 cents worth.If you go to this country or that and want to be part of it,you should live be the LAWS of that country.The problem is that people want to go to other country and want to live by the LAWS of the country they have came from.
Work under the table.
Pay NO taxes.
Go to that country and get Fed. and State, benefits and have NOT put one dime to it.
Have babys and you and I pick up the bill.
I could go on and on,but I think you get the IDEA!:curse:
If you come to the U.S.A. you shoul live like and AMERICAN!!!!:D NOT BRAKE THE LAWS and act like we should respect your ideas!!!!!
Have a GREAT DAY.:kiss:

[oracle128]

I agree Deltree. People who come to come to a Western country (like the U.S. or Australia) expect to be able to act like the culture they came from, apparently it's called "Multiculturalism". But, if someone wants to act like a Westerner in a culturally opposite country, they get bashed, shot, stabbed, jailed, or blown to pieces. And those same people b*tch when Westerners are a little hostile towards them. I'm totally against racism, but it's a two way street. If you're going to act hostile towards Westerners in your own country, don't expect to be treated like royalty in a Western country.

[Nick Grana]

I agree with oracle and Deltree but try telling that to some that were even born here and are natural U.S. citizens but think they have to act, talk, dress, etc, as their ancestral country. If one thinks that strongly about their origins and feel the need to act that way, then by all means, go back to that country. I don't feel an alliance to anyone who is completely different than I and the way I was reared. This goes for people who dye their hair red, blue, yellow, purple and have body piercings in unimaginable places not counting the ones readily seen. I can put up with differences but do not have to be a participant or like it.:cool:
I spent 3 years in Germany and made an effort to learn the language and traditions. My German friends appreciated that very much. The same was true while I was in Korea and Vietnam. People want you to appreciate their culture while in their country and are more than willing to work with you to achieve that. Same way I feel in my country.:happy:
(why do I feel like I'm cruis'n for a bruis'n:confused:) If the truth hurts, sorry.:hmm:

[DELTREE]

Nick,dye their hair red, blue, yellow, purple and have body piercings.
You have not got into that yet?:D
I was 14 months in Germany,when I went to towns I acted with respect to the people and myself. Only problem: TO D*M COLD!:sad:
You know in MOST country's,IF you acted up like they do here:they take them out and shot them,then charge the family for the bullet. I have been to some of those rat nests!

[Nick Grana]

You have not got into that yet?
In a way I have, but in a different day. When a teen I dyed my black hair blonde and had my pants pegged so tight I had to have zippers at the bottom of each leg to get my feet through them. We did many crazy things.
So I guess seeing folks holding their gonads while walking (actually holding their size 50 pants up) isn't much different than my old fads. My folks hated the things I did at the time also.:D
It's funny to watch a young'un try to get change out of his pocket and his knuckles drag the ground.:rotflmao: I can't tell if some have long pants too short or short pants way too long. What a trip.:cool:

[oracle128]

Why you shouldn't act like an ass in a foreign country (http://www.yongfook.com/2005/11/03/foreigner-vs-japanese-binman/).

[Nick Grana]

:rotflmao: Starts off great: "Now, in general I’m a pacifist (i.e. coward) but..."
I have cable and a 45MB clip (? that's a movie) is slow right now. Will watch it later. I can just imagine for the time being.
I see clips all the time on "Why you shouldn't act like an ass in your own country." But the ones that do stupid things here, there, everywhere, will continue to do so for that is their mentality as in totally screwed up, man.:cool:
I say to Bob Dylan (http://www.dvd.co.uk/product3.asp?id=5198922), "These times are not achanging".:hmm: