Who thinks it will ever end?

[Nick Grana]

Mogadishu battles intensify (http://www.middle-east-online.com/english/?id=16443)
Last week, the State Department acknowledged that the United States was working with "responsible individuals" in Somalia to prevent "terror taking root in the Horn of Africa."
Were these "responsible individuals" holding AK-47's?
How about sending some more Blackhawks?
Stick your finger in a hornet's nest and expect to be stung.
The whole Middle East is a hornet's nest. And the stings are fatal.:sad:
As soon as we walk out of Iraq and stroll into Iran, the turmoil will increase.
Cut losses and get the h-e-l-l out, now.:curse:
But, then, that's just me.:cool:
http://myspace-274.vo.llnwd.net/00727/47/22/727902274_m.jpgMiddle East.

[Morfeasss]

Nick, could you do me a favour please and give me the link you found the map?
There are some "details" i would like to see.

[Nick Grana]

Middle East (http://en.wikipedia.org/wiki/Image:GreaterMiddleEast2.png) I'm sure better descriptions are available. This just a quickie.:happy:

[Morfeasss]

Middle East (http://en.wikipedia.org/wiki/Image:GreaterMiddleEast2.png) I'm sure better descriptions are available. This just a quickie.:happy:
Thank you.
I thought the map was a little inaccurate.

[Nick Grana]

More detailed:
http://images6.theimagehosting.com/mapmiddleeast.gif (http://www.theimagehosting.com):cool:

[Miz]

I think that as long as there are humans who want what other humans have, it will not end. I believe it's safe to say that there has never been total peace among all humans in the history of humanity. "World peace" appears to be an unattainable ideal. I also think humans have a need to believe what they do is right; a need to justify their actions even if only to themselves.

When the weak are being maltreated, the only choices any man, woman or child has are to step in and help the weak or refuse to get involved. The stronger the human both physically and ethically, the more difficult it is to justify refusing to get involved.

The same choice is presented to countries. I believe The stronger the country both physically and ethically, the more dificult it is to justify refusing to get involved.

The ideals upon which the U.S. was built contributes to the difficulty. Those ideals include (but are not limited to) "freedom for all" and "inalienable rights endowed by our Creator." Americans are conditioned to believe that both concepts apply to all humans, not just U.S. citizens. We are also conditioned to believe that the person who selflessly comes to the aid of the weak is a hero.

Both individuals and countries that believe in those concepts find it very difficult to walk away and let the weak be abused. They find it's even more difficult to justify.

That said, humans and the countries they construct have a seemingly endless ability to find ways to justify anything they do, regardless of what they say they believe. :D

[Nick Grana]

You said everything right, Miz. :happy: Only in Utopia can we all be at peace.
But can one strong country continuously be the peacekeepers? No.
Why? For one thing, not every downtrodden, illridden, poorly managed nation,
even wants or respects help from anyone. One can not be helped if the help is not sought nor wanted. The U.S., alone, can not rid the axis of evil of all terror, terrorists, or the making of terrorists. (No, I am not forgetting the other countries that have been involved with helping and the loss of lives therein) Our president makes some bold statements that will make young blood run red into rivers of sorrow. Yes, I refer to the 'N' word a lot. The memories of lost friends, relatives, broken souls, limbs, minds, will never be forgotten. These times highten the awareness of the past and how it started and ended. If I thought I could help, I'd go myself, again. The culture clash is just too great a hurdle to get over. People are people? No. People are different in the ways they think, the things they do, the way of their rights.
We can't seem to get along in our own country, much less, in another.
I don't want to be loved by all but I sure as H don't want to be hated by most either.
I hope I don't hurt myself jumping off this wagon.:D

[Miz]

As far as being loved or hated, I have a theory...possibly has become one of my philosophies by now: "It's better if they like you but not everyone is going to like you. Those need to be afraid of you."

You can substitute the word "respect" for "afraid of" if you prefer. There may be a word that has the connotation of both fear and respect but I don't know what it is.

When a person or country is respected/feared, other people or countries think long and hard before provoking them.

Hey, it works for me. :D

As far as being the world's policeman, it certainly could be done. However, in my opinion, it just as certainly can't be done as it has been attempted in the past. Apparently neither the U.S. nor any other developed/industrialized/western/first-world (whichever term you prefer) country is very good at rehabilitating a society.

Once a regime has been deposed, t's an entire society that must be rehabilitated, not just a government formed. History has shown that western cultures are not adept at knowing and truly understanding the societal nuances and norms that absolutely must be understood about each society before they can effectively work with and in it.

As far as "people are people," I think it's more true than false. I believe that 95% of the people on the planet want the same thing...to be allowed to live their lives in peace and comfort. Their definitions of "peace' and "comfort" may vary but the basic desire is the same. The other 5% are the ones who mess things up. (Your percentages may vary. ;) )

All of the above would be my opinion, of course.

[Nick Grana]

Fear is toxic.
Respect is nurturing.
Fear destroys self-confidence. Respect builds it.
Fear is life-threatening. Respect is life-enhancing.
Fear is forced. Respect is earned.
Fear is learned. Respect is earned.
Simple camparisons.:happy:
"Their definitions of "peace' and "comfort" may vary but the basic desire is the same."
It is this varying degree that make people wanting the same thing different.
People have different ways they choose to achieve the same as another.
It is this difference in attitude, culture, results, that make people different.
The various ways one chooses to make peace and comfort is the same difference of how another one may choose to reach the same goal.
All humans are like all humans. All people are not like all people.:cool:
IMHO, of course.:D

[Vercades]

Nick, I'm starting to like ya, the way I like news casters.

[Harrie]

That's a really good map!

[Nick Grana]

Nick, I'm starting to like ya, the way I like news casters.
No hint of a little smilie or anything or is it just a bland statement of annoyance?:confused: :happy: Or do you really like newscasters? Naw, the former I believe.:cool: But who knows for sure?;)
These are my personal views on subjects as this and everyone is more than welcome to have opposing views. What fun would it be if all agreed?:D
I have no agenda and related to no political party. Just free thinking.:thrilled:
If jabs are thrown, that's fine. If civil disussions are not in one's realm of capability, then by all means, just throw something silly out if it makes one feel better. I love making people feel better.:thumbsup:

[oracle128]

Question: have you ever given to charity?

If the answer is yes (as it most likely will be), then your ideals are the same as everyone else's; we, as mostly well-off people, should help others. But there is only so much your pity and charity can do. Throwing money at the peoples of Iraq was not going to free them from Dictatorship. Doing the same for places like Africa has pretty much the same effect - which is why I never give to charities like World Vision.
"I give you $10, you keep half of it for 'administrative fees', and pass the rest onto a corrupt government? That sounds like a good idea! NOT"

What people in despair need 99% of the time is ACTION, not money, or even food and clothes (which often never go to the people who need it anyway). They don't need your pity, and they don't need your material goods so you can sit on your arse feeling good about yourself. They need someone to come over and help them. The "Big Bad Government" does exactly this, and people come up with all sorts of ulterior motives, conspiracy theories and what have you, and pretty much anything BUT one of the primary reasons the Coalition went over there in the first place. How can you justify saying (or implying) that one U.S. life is better than thousands of Iraqis? I say shame on you people. Shame, shame, SHAME (http://en.wikipedia.org/wiki/Derryn_Hinch).

[Nick Grana]

How can you justify saying (or implying) that one U.S. life is better than thousands of Iraqis? I say shame on you people.
Who said that? Shame on who people?
You mean me? Check my sig. I was helping the cause before many were not even a twinkle in a daddy's eye. Been there. Done that. Have you?
http://images6.theimagehosting.com/USArmy.f9e.jpg (http://www.theimagehosting.com)

[Miz]

Errr...if the standard is, "If you haven't been there and done that, you have no standing" were applied across the board, most of us would not be allowed to criticize elected officials. :D

[Vercades]

Everyone's given a right to complain and criticize if they vote in the election. If you don't vote, everything they say political means diddly squat.

[Nick Grana]

Errr...if the standard is, "If you haven't been there and done that, you have no standing" were applied across the board, most of us would not be allowed to criticize elected officials.
That was just a ref to a dig on me personally. Maybe I took "YOU" wrong.:hmm:
Don't anyone get their panties in a wad. Criticism and opinions are everyone's right as long as it does not insinuate special references to an individual.
Opinions are like Aholes; Everyone has one. That's a good thing.:D
"I get no respect." (Rodney Dangerfield) "I fell asleep with a cigarette in my hand and my wife lit it. I tell you, I get no respect.":rotflmao:
Now analyze this. Or, Part 2, analyze that.:thrilled: (Crystal/Dinero Movies)

[oracle128]

Wasn't directing it at 'you' Nick.

[Nick Grana]

Thanks. You know how type gets misconstrued at times.:hmm:

[Rejected]

I think that as long as our economy is based on Petroleum, and most of what we use is imported from Middle Eastern countries, our presence in the Middle East will never be gone. Rogue nations like Iraq and Iran, who as history shows us are apt to flex their muscles on other neighboring countries like Saudi Arabia and Kuwait (hello OPEC). Unless we're there to protect them our #1 power source and subsequently our economy goes out the window. These wars don’t have as much to do with human rights and democracy as popular opinion would have you believe.