Advice for a new video card?

[anken]

Hi,
we currently have the ATI Radeon 9800 Pro (AIW) 128 MB videocard.
I have had small problems with this card since we got it about 2 years ago and now I'm looking into replacing it. Hubby enjoys the flight simulator and we need a powerful card without all of the extras like the All In Wonder.

Mobo: Asus P4P 800 Deluxe
CPU: Intel P4 2.8 GHZ
Audio: Audigy Gamer
Memory: Kingston 1.24 GB

I would like to get a 256 MB card. Do you have any suggestions?
Thanks in advance, Ann

[leroys1000]

An ATI X800XT should handle it without speding too much.
If you want something better,ATI X1800 series or Nvidia
7800 series or better.

[Metr01973]

Your motherboard will support a 8x AGP video card. So depending on how much money you want to spend and whether you want to stay with ATI or swap to Nvidia is all down to personal preference. Personally I like Nvidia and have always used them and I currently run a 7800GS CO on a mobo similar to yours with no problems at all. If you do decide to upgrade make sure that your power supply is adequate, usually you need 400w or above PSU to cater for the more powerful cards.

If you go for Nvidia then I would suggest a 7600 (middle of the road) or a 7800 (high end)
http://www.overclockers.co.uk/acatalog/Nvidia_AGP_Graphics_Cards.html

or if you decide to stay with ATI then the X1800 or the X1950 (ATI isn't my strong point, maybe someone could suggest some others)
http://www.overclockers.co.uk/acatalog/ATI_AGP_Graphics_Cards.html

Either way make sure that you buy an AGP card as this is what your mobo will support (I'm afraid it doesn't support PCI-e)
AGP8X
AGP8X (AGP 3.0) is the next generation VGA interface specification that enables enhanced
graphics performance with high bandwidth up to 2.12GB/s. - taken from the ASUS website below
http://www.asus.com/products.aspx?l1=3&l2=12&l3=30&model=178&modelmenu=1

If you need to buy a new PSU, then don't buy a cheap one as they have a tendency to not have the correct amppage. Always buy a branded make like Antec or Thermaltake
http://www.overclockers.co.uk/acatalog/Antec_Power_Supplies.html

[anken]

Thank you leroy and metrO!
I forgot to mention that our powersupply is Antec 530W.
We have built this machine about 3 years ago with the best components we could afford at this time. Not all video cards were compatable with the Intel Chip then.
How do you like your 256Mb EVGANvidia Card,MetrO?
I have had some issues with the ATI (AIW) ever since we got it and would like to go with Nvidia GeForce.
Our ATI Card is in an AGP Slot. I have noticed that most of the new video cards are for the PCI Slot. Was there any problem with the AGP?
Again, thanks for your reply.

[photolady]

new video cards are for the PCI Slot The new card slots are different from the standard older PCI slots as they are PCI-Express (PCI-e) slots and much faster and better than the old PCI slots. They are also better and faster than the AGP slots. But those cards will not work in your computer because you don't have those slots only standard PCI slots for modems, sounds cards, etc.

Like Metr0 I prefer Nvidia cards and they do make those 6000 series cards in an AGP form. From your typing/wording I assume you are in the states/USA, correct?

Newegg is where I buy my computer parts. Below is link to the AGP 7000 series cards. Note the prices for the 7800 cards are quite expensive.
http://www.newegg.com/Product/ProductList.asp?Submit=ENE&N=2000380048+1069609639+1305520548+106790717&Subcategory=48&description=&Ntk=&srchInDesc=
And then there is the 6000 series cards that any above the 6200 will work just as good as the higher priced 7000 series do.

http://www.newegg.com/Product/ProductList.asp?Submit=ENE&N=2000380048+1069609639+1305520548+106790703&Subcategory=48&description=&Ntk=&srchInDesc=

[anken]

Thank you for your input photolady. Yes, we're in the USA.
We got most of our components from newegg when we built it also and have been very happy with their merchandise.
I'm leaning toward the EVGA Nvidia GeForce 7800 CO (256 Mb). From what I can see it's AGP. It's pricey but I think it's worth it for the flightsim.
Ha, ha...we were hoping that our P4P 800 Deluxe Mobo. would keep us uptodate for quite a while....What motherboard are you using?
Again, thanks for your info and help. Ann

[photolady]

I strictly use Gigabyte boards. If I were you I'd go for the BFG one, most BFG video cards have a lifetime warranty and the one that I did have previously in this computer of mine was a good card. I just upgraded and gave that one to my daughter.

http://www.newegg.com/Product/Product.asp?Item=N82E16814143046

And here is the link that tells you about the card itself and the True lifetime warranty:

http://www.bfgtech.com/7800GS_256.html

[Metr01973]

Thank you for your input photolady. Yes, we're in the USA.
We got most of our components from newegg when we built it also and have been very happy with their merchandise.
I'm leaning toward the EVGA Nvidia GeForce 7800 CO (256 Mb). From what I can see it's AGP. It's pricey but I think it's worth it for the flightsim.
Ha, ha...we were hoping that our P4P 800 Deluxe Mobo. would keep us uptodate for quite a while....What motherboard are you using?
Again, thanks for your info and help. Ann

The 7800GS CO is a fantastic a card and plays most games maxed out @ 1280x1024, the only game I haven't been able to play at high settings was Oblivion but I came pretty close. The only problem I've had was the first card that they sent me was faulty (I ordered through an on-line company called Scan.co.uk) but after some testing I sent it back and they sent me a new one which I haven't had any problems with at all. Apparently EVGA were having some problems with their QA department when I got the faulty card and it's all sorted now. Believe me you won't go wrong paying the extra few $'s and buying the 7800GS CO as it's already factory overclocked to 430/1300, which compared to other 7800GS's is a fair overclock. The card is stable and produces some very good frame rates, HL2 with everything turned to high @ 1280x1024 gets an average frame rate of about 40-60fps (but that's with my machine, so it could be different with yours but still you'll get a good frame rate). Considering this is an AGP card it's one of, if not the fastest on the market. btw the CO in the title has something to with a copper heatsink, that's why they can overclock it so much. It's provides better cooling, apparently, lol.

[anken]

Thanks for your suggestions!
I'm looking forward to buy this card as soon as I get the money together. It's pricey but I rather wait and buy 7800 GS card.

[Metr01973]

Wise choice.

[anken]

Hi MetrO,
I have been looking at some of the other cards and found especially the ATI Cards are "not Vista ready". The Nvidia GeForce doesn't address this in their spec's.
Maybe rather than spending $300.- now and then upgrading again I should save up and also buy a new mobo,etc. after Vista comes out(and is debugged).
Also, I have seen on some gaming posts that some systems have 2 or even 4 video cards in them. I have never heard of that before....I guess it takes a very special mobo?

[Metr01973]

With Vista coming out next year, along comes a new version of Direct X (version 10) and to get the most out of Vista and Direct X10 games then you are going to have to have a graphics card that can support DX10 which aren't out yet, they should be out towards the end of the year. So your suggestion is a good one, wait and save up the money and buy a new mobo, RAM and graphics card and have a kick a$$ machine next year. Although Vista will run under DX9.0c you won't be able to sample all the great graphics that M$ have promised us DX10 can create.
You are talking about SLI and yes, you have to have an SLI mobo and 2 graphic cards that are the same i.e 2 7900GT's running in SLI on an SLI mobo. This where it can start to get VERY expensive.

[djdbg]

Hi there

I was also considering a new graphics card but gave up on the idea for the following reasons;
I was led to believe that any card worth buying would be pci express and that i would have to replace my motherboard. In turn, i would propably have to replace my processor and if the Mhz rating of my ram wasn't compatible i would have to replace it too.

From what has been said in this thread would i be right to assume it is possible to have a straight swap for the nvidia7800?

p.s i currnetly have ATI 9200, athlon 64 3000+ and 1024 Ram.

Thanks

[photolady]

There are still some pretty decent video cards in the AGP variety, djdbg, if that is the slot you have. Some of the 7000's of Nvidia are AGP. Also some Ati's are still available in AGP. All in all, AGP is still good up to a point. They won't out do a PCI-E card but they will play games such as Oblivion.

[Metr01973]

The 7800 I have is AGP and if your mobo has a 8x AGP slot then a 7800 will work. Just to be safe though post the make and model number of your mobo and I'll check to see if it's compatible. If you don't know the make and model number of your mobo download and install Everest home and run the report feature and post that on here.
http://www.cybertechhelp.com/download/file/everest-home-edition

[djdbg]

Thanks METR01973

Here is the report below, i wasn't to sure of what finer details i had to be aware or conscious of before deciding on the final AGP Graphics Card.

Computer:
Operating System Microsoft Windows XP Home Edition
OS Service Pack Service Pack 2
DirectX 4.09.00.0904 (DirectX 9.0c)
Computer Name MONKEY
User Name The Master

Motherboard:
CPU Type AMD Athlon 64, 2000 MHz (10 x 200) 3000+
Motherboard Name MSI K8TM-ILSR (MS-6741) (3 PCI, 1 AGP, 1 CNR, 2 DDR DIMM, Audio, LAN, IEEE-1394)
Motherboard Chipset VIA VT8383 Apollo K8T800, AMD Hammer
System Memory 1024 MB (PC2700 DDR SDRAM)
BIOS Type AMI (09/03/03)
Communication Port Communications Port (COM1)
Communication Port ECP Printer Port (LPT1)

Display:
Video Adapter ALL-IN-WONDER 9200 SERIES - Secondary (256 MB)
Video Adapter ALL-IN-WONDER 9200 SERIES (256 MB)
3D Accelerator ATI Radeon 9200 (RV280)

--------[ CPU ]---------------------------------------------------------------------------------------------------------

CPU Properties:
CPU Type AMD Athlon 64, 2000 MHz (10 x 200) 3000+
CPU Alias ClawHammer-512 S754
CPU Stepping SH-CG
Instruction Set x86, x86-64, MMX, 3DNow!, SSE, SSE2
Min / Max CPU Multiplier 4x / 10x
L1 Code Cache 64 KB (Parity)
L1 Data Cache 64 KB (ECC)
L2 Cache 512 KB (On-Die, ECC, Full-Speed)

CPU Physical Info:
Package Type 754 Pin uOPGA
Package Size 4.00 cm x 4.00 cm
Transistors 105.9 million
Process Technology 9Mi, 0.13 um, CMOS, Cu, SOI
Die Size 193 mm2
Core Voltage 1.550 V
I/O Voltage 1.2 V + 2.5 V
Maximum Power 89.0 W

CPU Manufacturer:
Company Name Advanced Micro Devices, Inc.
Product Information http://www.amd.com/us-en/Processors/ProductInformation/0,,30_118,00.html

CPU Utilization:
CPU #1 0 %

--------[ Motherboard ]-------------------------------------------------------------------------------------------------

Motherboard Properties:
Motherboard ID 62-0903-009999-00101111-040201-VIA_K8$1XXXX000_A6741VMS V1.0B7 090303
Motherboard Name MSI K8TM-ILSR (MS-6741)

Front Side Bus Properties:
Bus Type AMD Hammer
Real Clock 200 MHz
Effective Clock 200 MHz
HyperTransport Clock 800 MHz

Memory Bus Properties:
Bus Type DDR SDRAM
Bus Width 64-bit
Real Clock 167 MHz (DDR)
Effective Clock 333 MHz
Bandwidth 2667 MB/s

Chipset Bus Properties:
Bus Type VIA V-Link
Bus Width 8-bit
Real Clock 67 MHz (QDR)
Effective Clock 267 MHz
Bandwidth 267 MB/s

Motherboard Physical Info:
CPU Sockets/Slots 1 Socket 754
Expansion Slots 3 PCI, 1 AGP, 1 CNR
RAM Slots 2 DDR DIMM
Integrated Devices Audio, LAN, IEEE-1394
Form Factor Micro ATX
Motherboard Size 240 mm x 240 mm
Motherboard Chipset K8T800

Motherboard Manufacturer:
Company Name Micro-Star International
Product Information http://www.msi.com.tw/program/products/mainboard/mbd/pro_mbd_list.php
BIOS Download http://www.msi.com.tw/program/support/bios/bos/spt_bos_list.php


--------[ Windows Video ]-----------------------------------------------------------------------------------------------

[ ALL-IN-WONDER 9200 SERIES - Secondary ]

Video Adapter Properties:
Device Description ALL-IN-WONDER 9200 SERIES - Secondary
Adapter String ALL-IN-WONDER 9200 SERIES
BIOS String BK-ATI VER008.015.048.000
Chip Type RADEON 9200 AGP (0x5961)
DAC Type Internal DAC(400MHz)
Installed Drivers ati2dvag (6.14.10.6387 - ATI Catalyst 3.8)
Memory Size 256 MB

Video Adapter Manufacturer:
Company Name ATI Technologies Inc.
Product Information http://www.ati.com/products/gamer.html
Driver Download http://www.ati.com/support/driver.html

[ ALL-IN-WONDER 9200 SERIES ]

Video Adapter Properties:
Device Description ALL-IN-WONDER 9200 SERIES
Adapter String ALL-IN-WONDER 9200 SERIES
BIOS String BK-ATI VER008.015.048.000
Chip Type RADEON 9200 AGP (0x5961)
DAC Type Internal DAC(400MHz)
Installed Drivers ati2dvag (6.14.10.6387 - ATI Catalyst 3.8)
Memory Size 256 MB

Video Adapter Manufacturer:
Company Name ATI Technologies Inc.
Product Information http://www.ati.com/products/gamer.html
Driver Download http://www.ati.com/support/driver.html


--------[ PCI / AGP Video ]---------------------------------------------------------------------------------------------

ATI Radeon 9200 (RV280) Video Adapter
ATI Radeon 9200 (RV280) 3D Accelerator

[ ATI All-in-Wonder 9200 Video Adapter ]

Device Properties:
Device Description ATI All-in-Wonder 9200 Video Adapter
Bus Type AGP 8x
Bus / Device / Function 1 / 0 / 0
Device ID 1002-5961
Subsystem ID 1002-4F72
Device Class 0300 (VGA Display Controller)
Revision 01
Fast Back-to-Back Transactions Supported, Disabled

Device Features:
66 MHz Operation Supported
Bus Mastering Enabled

AGP Properties:
AGP Version 3.00
AGP Status Enabled
Supported AGP Speeds 1x, 2x, 8x
Current AGP Speed 8x
Fast-Write Supported, Disabled
Side Band Addressing Supported, Enabled

If there is anything else needed let me know, i couldn't copy in the whole report, just selected what i hoped may be relevant.

[Bdang]

Going through the same process as these 2 are but did some more research so maybe i can help out.

Im running on a budget so my 2 options would be the x800/x850 series or the nivida 6800 ultra series. both are around or under 150 on ebay (neither are really sold anymore) but both will increase ur graphics significantly.

The high end would be the 7800 but thats going to bring ya close to 300. Compared to the x800/850, ur looking at a 30-40% increase in performance. 7600 isnt bad either.




About the Dx10 thing, there ARE cards out that do support dx10. more specificly, the 8800gts and gtx from nividia. Both are PCI though and around 670 or so.

[photolady]

Those ATI cards are still available on newegg. See link:

http://www.newegg.com/Product/ProductList.asp?Submit=ENE&N=2000380048+1305520549+106790821+1069609639&Subcategory=48&description=&Ntk=&srchInDesc=

And the 6800 series Nvidia as well:

http://www.newegg.com/Product/ProductList.asp?Submit=ENE&N=2000380048+1069609639+1305520548+106790703&Subcategory=48&description=&Ntk=&srchInDesc=

Course if you live outside the USA Newegg doesn't ship outside the states. But in the USA they're better for buying parts than ebay will ever be. Oh and they are all AGP cards.

[Bdang]

ah thanks for the links. was actually refering to the xt versions of the Ati's as they're considerably stronger than the x800gto and the 850pros listed there. same goes for the nvidia; the ultras arent listed as well.

oh, and ati is releasing an upper end agp as well, look out for the x1950pro coming out for agp in the near future.