New Router Crashes my Internet

[sina_t97]

Hello everyone. Recently I switched from Verizon High Speed DSL to Comcast Cable Internet. When I had DSL, the router and modem were all as one device and everything was well. When I switched to cable, the cable company provided us with a cable modem, but no wireless router. So I went and bought a Netgear WGR614 wireless G router. I set everything up and it worked fine, that is until I tried to play an online game, Counter-Strike. I started the game, and two things happened. Either the server list would not load, or once the list loaded, and I clicked to connect to a server, it wouldn't connect. Now I thought, maybe I need to forward some ports, even though I never had to forward any ports while having my DSL internet. The only time I forwarded ports on my DSL internet was when I wanted to host a Counter-Strike server, which I did on several occasions, and it worked fine. Anyways, back to my new router and cable internet. So I forwarded the necessary ports as indicated by the game's website, and this time I was able to connect to a server. Yet when I got out of a server, the problem I had before sprang up and I could not connect again. Also, just to tell you, when my Counter-Strike problem occurs, I can't even view any web-pages once I get out of the game, for about 5 minutes, and then my internet comes back. Besides forwarding ports, I have disabled my own firewall, and also the router's SPI firewall. My router has an option for port triggering, but I'm not sure that is what I need to do. So right now I am clueless. Sometimes I can connect to a server, the next minute I cant, and trying to connect to Counter-Strike servers crashes my web-page viewing for about 5 minutes. Please Help!! Thanks for reading. :hmm:

[Archangel122184]

Lets do a couple network tests to see if we can find where the problem is.

start -> run -> "cmd /k ping /n 10 www.google.com" -> enter
copy the output into a reply (right click the title bar, edit, copy)

start -> run -> "cmd /k tracert www.google.com" -> enter
copy the output into a reply (right click the title bar, edit, copy)

[sina_t97]

I'm sorry, but I do not exactly understand how to input the line of code you gave me. I clicked run, and brought up a black command window, yet I am not sure what exactly I need to type in. Is it '/k' or just 'k', or neither? Thanks for replying though. Oh and also, an update. I have realized now that my internet crashing occurs only when I open my servers list. If I do not, I am able to play the game by connecting to servers individually. I read online somewhere that the crash occurs because opening the servers list causes the router to make too many UDP connections (or something like that?). The supposed solution was to login to your router using Telnet and type some commands, but I'm not sure exactly what. Thank You.

[sina_t97]

OK, I figured out what I was doing wrong with the command thing, and anyways, here are the results of the first line:

C:\Documents and Settings\Sina>cmd /k ping /n 10 www.google.com

Pinging www.l.google.com [64.233.161.147] with 32 bytes of data:

Reply from 64.233.161.147: bytes=32 time=26ms TTL=241
Reply from 64.233.161.147: bytes=32 time=26ms TTL=241
Reply from 64.233.161.147: bytes=32 time=28ms TTL=241
Reply from 64.233.161.147: bytes=32 time=24ms TTL=241
Reply from 64.233.161.147: bytes=32 time=25ms TTL=241
Reply from 64.233.161.147: bytes=32 time=26ms TTL=241
Reply from 64.233.161.147: bytes=32 time=29ms TTL=241
Reply from 64.233.161.147: bytes=32 time=26ms TTL=241
Reply from 64.233.161.147: bytes=32 time=24ms TTL=241
Reply from 64.233.161.147: bytes=32 time=24ms TTL=241

Ping statistics for 64.233.161.147:
Packets: Sent = 10, Received = 10, Lost = 0 (0% loss),
Approximate round trip times in milli-seconds:
Minimum = 24ms, Maximum = 29ms, Average = 25ms

Results of second line:

C:\Documents and Settings\Sina>cmd /k tracert www.google.com

Tracing route to www.l.google.com [64.233.161.147]
over a maximum of 30 hops:

1 1 ms 1 ms 1 ms 192.168.1.1
2 * * * Request timed out.
3 743 ms 10 ms 10 ms ge-4-17-ur01.rockville.md.bad.comcast.net [68.87
.136.29]
4 10 ms 8 ms 9 ms te-9-1-ur02.rockville.md.bad.comcast.net [68.87.
129.154]
5 11 ms 10 ms 11 ms te-9-1-ur03.rockville.md.bad.comcast.net [68.87.
129.158]
6 13 ms 14 ms 14 ms te-8-3-ar01.howardcounty.md.bad.comcast.net [68.
87.136.5]
7 14 ms 19 ms 14 ms po-10-ar02.whitemarsh.md.bad.comcast.net [68.87.
129.34]
8 17 ms 16 ms 38 ms 68.86.90.81
9 20 ms 19 ms 19 ms 68.86.85.14
10 109 ms 201 ms 207 ms te-4-2.car1.null.Level3.net [4.78.169.49]
11 19 ms 19 ms 19 ms ge-0-3-0-69.bbr2.NewYork1.Level3.net [4.68.16.2]

12 21 ms 21 ms 21 ms as-3-0.bbr2.Washington1.Level3.net [4.68.128.206
]
13 20 ms 30 ms 21 ms ae-11-69.car1.Washington1.Level3.net [4.68.17.3]

14 22 ms 24 ms 23 ms GOOGLE-INC.car1.Level3.net [4.79.228.38]
15 25 ms 25 ms 23 ms 64.233.175.171
16 28 ms 28 ms 29 ms 216.239.48.190
17 24 ms 25 ms 24 ms od-in-f147.google.com [64.233.161.147]

Trace complete.

[Archangel122184]

Looking at your tracert:

3 743 ms 10 ms 10 ms ge-4-17-ur01.rockville.md.bad.comcast.net [68.87
.136.29]
10 109 ms 201 ms 207 ms te-4-2.car1.null.Level3.net [4.78.169.49]

Indicates a possible problem with your ISP. You may want to take your remediation to them. However, most cable ISPs don't support Routers so if you can, disconnect your own router and plug your pc directly into the modem and try the 2 commands again and I might be able to give you some more insight.

[sina_t97]

Unfortunately my PC is upstairs and my router/modem in the basement, and its not really possible to connect with a wire unless its a really long one. But any other insight to that possible problem and solution using telnet would be helpful as well. Thank you.

[Archangel122184]

At this point I would contact your ISP directly.

[z1p]

I don't think "md.bad.comcast.net" is indicating a BAD point on the route, I think it is just a domain that comcast has out there.


If you can point us to the instructions you found on possibly fixing the problem, we might be able to help you through them

[Archangel122184]

That is pretty funny... I never even looked at the fqdn... Take a look at the latencies... There are intermittent fluctuations.

[z1p]

my bad.

It might be worth complaining to the ISP. I'm sure if they are getting frequent latencies of 743ms from Level3, they are screaming at them already.

Those time would explain some lags in the game or even possibly being dropped, it doesn't seem to explain a completely losing the internet connection.

I think sina may have hit on the problem. The WGR614 is not a top end router so it is possible that it is locking under the load of some many connections.

I don't the details of the possible settings on the WGR614, but it sounds like sina may have hit upon some tweaks that may help.

[Archangel122184]

It may not be a top end router, but CS only makes 2-3 connections when connecting to a server... I can't see that as a huge problem... unless its having packet flow problems and the buffers aren't large enough...

[z1p]

... an update. I have realized now that my internet crashing occurs only when I open my servers list. If I do not, I am able to play the game by connecting to servers individually. I read online somewhere that the crash occurs because opening the servers list causes the router to make too many UDP connections (or something like that?). The supposed solution was to login to your router using Telnet and type some commands, but I'm not sure exactly what. Thank You.

It may not be a top end router, but CS only makes 2-3 connections when connecting to a server... I can't see that as a huge problem... unless its having packet flow problems and the buffers aren't large enough...

It seems like the problem is when the server list is being refreshed, which depending on how its implemented could result in a large number of connections.

[sina_t97]

Thanks for all of the insight everyone. Here is the progress I have made. In "Steam" (the game client that handles my game and other games as well) I changed my internet connection speed from 2mb cable to 56k dial-up. This made the server list come up more slowly and to my surprise, my internet didn't crash! However, this is only a temporary fix since when I connect to servers it connects much slower, assuming I am running on 56k dial-up. Also, I have researched the Steam website Forums, and apparently many people are having this problem. Some fixed it by buying a different router, but I'm not ready to go there yet. A suggested fix was to change my routers MTU settings from the standard 1500 to something like 1462, 1400, or 1362. I think I am going to give this a shot, but first I need to figure out how to do this on my WGR614 Netgear Router. Here is a page I found on Telnetting my specific router. If someone could look this over and see if it sounds legit, that would be helpful. http://www.seattlewireless.net/NetgearWGR614#head-94a70e5e770b17b8df1635446ce8790b0722e370
Any suggestions or warnings about changing this setting would be very helpful. Thank you.

[Archangel122184]

Changing the mtu is perfectly safe. You can actually test to find out what your max value is.

start -> run -> "cmd" -> enter

at the cmd prompt use different message sizes with the ping command

ping -l 1450 www.google.com

If you get a response that value is safe. Just increase the value until you no longer get responses. I would start with 1450, most don't go below that.

[z1p]

As AA said, changing the MTU isn't a dangerous operation, but I would be careful with hacking the WGR614. You should be able to change what you need through the web based console to the WGR614 or you can change the MTU at your PC it the WGR614 doesn't have an MTU option.

[sina_t97]

Good News! I found the MTU size option on my routers web interface, and now it is set to 1500, so I'm going to fiddle around with it and see what results I get. Thanks again.

[sina_t97]

OK, so I ran the pinging tests and found out that after 1472, the results keep coming in as "Request timed out", which I assume is a fail, so my max MTU must be 1472. Here are some results:

C:\Documents and Settings\Sina>ping -l 1473 www.google.com

Pinging www.l.google.com [64.233.169.104] with 1473 bytes of data:

Request timed out.
Request timed out.
Request timed out.
Request timed out.

Ping statistics for 64.233.169.104:
Packets: Sent = 4, Received = 0, Lost = 4 (100% loss),

C:\Documents and Settings\Sina>ping -l 1472 www.google.com

Pinging www.l.google.com [64.233.169.104] with 1472 bytes of data:

Reply from 64.233.169.104: bytes=56 (sent 1472) time=21ms TTL=242
Reply from 64.233.169.104: bytes=56 (sent 1472) time=24ms TTL=242
Reply from 64.233.169.104: bytes=56 (sent 1472) time=20ms TTL=242
Reply from 64.233.169.104: bytes=56 (sent 1472) time=22ms TTL=242

Ping statistics for 64.233.169.104:
Packets: Sent = 4, Received = 4, Lost = 0 (0% loss),
Approximate round trip times in milli-seconds:
Minimum = 20ms, Maximum = 24ms, Average = 21ms

C:\Documents and Settings\Sina>ping -l 1471 www.google.com

Pinging www.l.google.com [64.233.169.104] with 1471 bytes of data:

Reply from 64.233.169.104: bytes=56 (sent 1471) time=20ms TTL=242
Reply from 64.233.169.104: bytes=56 (sent 1471) time=20ms TTL=242
Reply from 64.233.169.104: bytes=56 (sent 1471) time=20ms TTL=242
Reply from 64.233.169.104: bytes=56 (sent 1471) time=19ms TTL=242

Ping statistics for 64.233.169.104:
Packets: Sent = 4, Received = 4, Lost = 0 (0% loss),
Approximate round trip times in milli-seconds:
Minimum = 19ms, Maximum = 20ms, Average = 19ms

C:\Documents and Settings\Sina>


Now as you can see, 1472 and 1471 both work, but I seem to notice that 1471 took less time to get the packets than 1472. So which one should I put as my MTU size based on these results? I'm going to try both but your input is well appreciated. Thanks.

[sina_t97]

Well I tried 1471 and 1472, and my problem still persisted, so then I tried 1460 which was recommended on the thread I found in the Steam forums, and now I get server lists perfectly, and my internet does not crash. However, one time I refreshed my server list and my internet went down for about 10-15 seconds, but I don't think my router restarted like it did before, it was just stuck I guess. And that is a lot better than 5 minute crashing sessions. Thank you all for reading my posts and helping me fix this problem. I hope someday I can help you! Thanks again. -Sina

[z1p]

Thanks for the updates and sticking with us on the problem.
With the updates and info you've provided, it may help others in the future.

-z1p