installation, laptop problem

[norge]

After formatting the disk, i wanted to install win 98 on my laptop. The problem that accured is that i CAN boot up the computer thrue a startup disk, but because may laptop has changable disk for both floppy drive and cdrom drive, but i CANT install win 98 because the computer doesnt recognise the cdrom drive.
I tried to boot up the computer without startup disk but it doesnt recognise the cdrom either...please help me installing the win 98, because the comuter is empty now after formatting

Thanks,
Norge

[Alfons]

One Way:

Use the W98 Startup Disk and make the hard disk bootable, then copy all the files from the Startup Disk to the hard disk. Install your CD-ROM and boot to your hard disk, this will install the CD-ROM drivers and you can carry on.

Another Way:

Insert the CD drive, start the computer, set up the BIOS to boot from the Removeable Drive (Floppy or CD-ROM), then put in the W98 CD, save & exit from BIOS and it should seek out the boot files from the CD and start the whole process for you.

[jtdoom]

Hi

I see Alfons gave it to you in a nutshell.

laptops re-revisited

you can perhaps make an "Emergency Boot Disk") straight from CDROM.
How ?
Pop your original windows 98 CD in, hold shift so it won't load, open explorer & navigate to tools\mtsutil\fat32ebd\fat32ebd.exe
Pop in a new floppy, and run fat32ebd.exe. It will warn you that whatever was on the floppy will be overwritten.

This Windows' "Emergency Boot Disk" has a different content than the one made from control panel.
This EBD has a lot going for it.
Primo; It got made from virus free media.
Secundo; it does not create a RAMdrive at boot, which helps avoid driveletter confusion.
Tertio; it supports all them CDROMs the normal start disk does.
This EBD is the booter I prefer and use most.

---------------------------
for laptops...
---------------------------

Suppose you have an upgrade 9x or ME (these CD's are not bootable.)
OR... you find it cannot boot off CD.
And suppose you have formatted hard disk in a laptop.
(It may come to that, one day)

You just need a booter...

YET, suppose the lapper has a swap-drive-bay, and no working HOTswap util or button...
Erm... then... booting off floppy, it will never find CDROM...
So, what do you do?
You can make the most basic CDROM support booter there is
It will use NO ramdrive

Since you will MAKE YOUR HARD DRIVE BOOTABLE, it would be a good thing IF YOUR BOOTER has SAME VERSION as the Operating System you are going to install.

Have you made that EBD or start disk with smartdrv.exe and diskcopy.com on it ?
Make a diskcopy of it
Delete A:\config.sys
Delete A:\autoexec.bat

Then you open notepad (When you save, you need save with "all file types" option enabled.)
[if you still know how to use EDIT in DOS, you can use that too]

You create a new file called
A:\autoexec.bat
All it really needs is (in notepad this is easy, paste the following into it )

LH MSCDEX.EXE /D:cdrom001
SET DIRCMD=/w /o /p /a
set temp=c:\
set tmp=c:\

Save it as A:\autoexec.bat

Again open notepad (or edit in DOS) and create a new file called
A:\config.sys
This one needs;


lastdrive=z
device=himem.sys
DEVICE=EMM386.EXE NOEMS
device=oakcdrom.sys /D:cdrom001
files=60
buffers=20
dos=high,umb
stacks=9,256


Save it as A:config.sys

Please note, OAKCDROM.SYS even when VERY generic, does not support all drives. But it works on MOST cases, and having it try all just takes time... (I have yet to see a laptop with SCSI, see.)
More to the point, since there is no drive in the bay, when you boot off this floppy, it reports it cannot find a CDROM DRIVE.
So, you will have to put the files from floppy onto the hard drive...

boot off it (note, if that laptop uses overlay, make sure that overlay was loaded)

C:
md DOS
cd DOS
copy A:\*.*
cd\
copy C:\dos
a:
sys C:

After it finished, pull the floppy out
shut
Put CD-drive in bay
Boot up
You stand a good chance it will find the CDROM drive..

IF NOT, we shall again have to look at another method to install your own (from a driver install floppy), or use ALL drivers you find on the EBD or on the START DISK rather than just OAKCDROM.SYS

Please, DO NOT COPY THE CONFIG.SYS AND AUTOEXEC.BAT FROM A START DISK to hard drive, AND MOST CERTAINLY DO NOT LEAVE THEM ON WHEN YOU ARE READY TO RUN SETUP...
You only need the section that loads drivers!
And you only need it that one time.
(When you look at them, you find these files on EBD are simpler than the ones in Start disk.)

either way,
Once you have access to the CD, do NOT launch setup from the CD itself.
YOU HAVE to copy the setup files to hard disk...
(When you first put the setup cabinets onto hard disk, you avoid tons of trouble.)


C:
md wincabs
cd wincabs
copy D:\win98
setup /p j


An upgrade version will ask proof of an earlier version.
You can show it the CD or floppies from the earlier version.

[jtdoom]

method with start disk or EBD
without editing the files...

==========

Even when it is not a good idea to copy a start disk to root of C: there is another method, which copies the "start disk" to hard drive. Using that method you needn't edit any files, but you have to do a few things.
This method got named "laptops revisited" ...
..............

Laptops revisited

primo; you don't have a bootable CDROM (or must not boot off CD because of overlay).
secundo; its a swap bay
simple solution
You can do the floppy/cdrom bay trick without editing files.

If it's formatted, and only has a C: partition
boot from floppy (if you have overlay, make sure it loads)

That ramdrive I always avoid would be D: and no CDROM
C:
cd\
copy A:\*.*
copy D:\*.*
A:
sys C:

shut

OR; if you avoided the RAMdrive... by using a floppy you made by tools\mtsutil\fat32ebd\fat32ebd.exe (it don't make a ramdrive, that one...)
C:
cd\
copy A:\*.*
A:
sys C:
shut

put the CD tray in
and boot

after booting the machine with all them files from the floppy on it, one looks for the letter given to CDROM device
With a little luck, you see what letter was given to the CDROM-drive

I am Assuming you had that bit of luck.
Since I prefer the EBD, I am assuming it is assigned letter D:
Here goes
you are at C:\>_ prompt

cd\
md DOS
cd DOS
copy C:\*.*
cd\
md win98
cd win98
copy D:\win98
(and after it copied the files...)

del C:\*.* (PLEASE delete these files in root.)

setup /P J

viola...

once again, there are little variations for the other Windows 9x versions.

copy D:\win9x (if you use win ME)
setup

copy D:\win95 ( if you use win 95)
setup /p j

Hmmm, I hear you ask
why put all of them files on root of C: and then remove them?
Well, one REALLY DOES NOT want to leave this UNEDITED floppy's config.sys and autoexec.bat "boot menu" in root of C:

Yep, you wanted CDROM support this one time
but you do not want to load all the other stuff in the future.
Yep, soon as you was able to copy content from CDROM to C: you no longer need the files in root of C: and leaving them there could become a problem.
Still, they can be useful for a re-install later on, hence I ask to copy them to C:\DOS

The earlier lapper solution had edited files on floppy.
They can be left as is, but they can also be deleted just before you run setup.
Windows setup REM's out the the lines it don't need.
It does NOT rem out lines for ramdrive and other things like these menus, though... and THAT is why the standard start up disk files SHOULD be deleted before launching setup.

The installfiles, aka cabinets, are now in a folder on your hard drive (for instance, C:\win98, or C:\wincabs ) and drivers installation will be easy because you won't be doing a disc jockey act.
=================

btw, if you did NOT have that bit of luck, you have to install that particular mousetrap of yours... (pretty much same stuff as described earlier in Problem CDROM)
You will have to get the install floppy for your particular laptop.
(btw, they have readme files, these things...)

Mind you, the few times we had to mess with laptops, we found that the OAKCDROM.SYS driver was adequate.
Actually, that method was easier than what the driver installer had us go thru...

<< end of lapper re-RE-revisited.

[norge]

Thanks for the tips. I'll give it a try and let u know how it goes!
Jeroen

[jtdoom]

btw, welcome to CTH



:glug:

[jtdoom]

ik ben curieus
hoe kwam je hier verzeild?

[norge]

It doesnt seem to work yet...after making the adjustments to the config.sys and the autoexec.bat, the computer wont accept the copy c:\dos bacause it says i'm not ollowed to overwrite command.com. So, the copying doesn't seem to work and therefor not the driver notice either..
I'll format the drive again, so it's totally empty and try this again...let me know if there's another way!

Norge

[jtdoom]

when you did
sys C:
you already transferred command.com and io.sys... so you can "ignore" that overwrite message and hit Y (or J in dutch)


hmmm, i'll revise the steps so this don't happen in future.

[jtdoom]

hmmm, the method was correct!

I think you had formatted using the /s switch.
(lets remedy this)

snip>> if you avoided the RAMdrive... by using a floppy you made by tools\mtsutil\fat32ebd\fat32ebd.exe (it don't make a ramdrive, that one...)

format C: /Q /U /autotest
unlock C:
C:
cd\
copy A:\*.*
A:
sys C:


shut
put the CD tray in
and boot

one looks for the letter given to CDROM device
With a little luck, you see what letter was given to the CDROM-drive
you are at C:\>_ prompt

cd\
md DOS
cd DOS
copy C:\*.*
cd\
md win98
cd win98
copy D:\win98
del C:\*.*
setup /P J

( if letter E: was given to cdrom, use copy E:\win98 )

[norge]

It finally worked to recognise the D driver with cdrom!!!I also started setup thrue the means you advised in the last reply. Setup started, but came to a stop because it couldn't work on the systemfiles due to a virusdetection program. It said that I could set off this detectionprogram thrue autoexec.bat and config.sys.
Since you have given me so great tips, I want to do this right and therefor ask U again for advise.

Please let me know exactly how to change the settings in autoexec.bat and config.sys so that the virusdetection program is shot off and i can proceed installing win98.

Thanks so mutch!

Norge

[Alfons]

If you have no AV installed on the disk, then it must be the BIOS AV program (boot sector protection) that's running. Enter your BIOS Setup Utility and find the line for the Anti Virus Protection and make sure that it's disabled.

[jtdoom]

Jeroen, thanks for the feedback.
I should tell you that your issues have made me revise "butter..."

apart from the problem you encountered with copy (where files existed on the drive, the dialog stopped you from copying all files) I also rewrote something about Anti-Virus settings

snip > paste

If you want to run windows setup on a new hard disk, I should also tell you that you ought to disable the motherboard antivirus feature in BIOS setup.

With used drives, there is more to this!
To explain;
Suppose you want to run setup on a used drive, and have to reformat it. Now suppose that that hard disk had a antivirus program running, which loaded a boot sector protector.
Then you could get into trouble if you do NOT disable the BIOS AV.
You see, TWO such services can prevent a normal setup.
I know, you click Continue to that warning message, but it is (sorta) on top of the other, see...

Then there are rare cases where you cannot disable onboard AV, and it can prevent setup to "systemise" the drive.
in these cases, you use
setup /ir
This /ir switch tells Windows Setup not to attempt to write to the boot sector. This should only be used when the anti-virus protection in CMOS cannot be disabled. Your computer will not reboot at the end of setup. You must boot using the Startup disk, SYS your hard drive, then boot normally to allow Setup to finish.

Now, in some cases where a remnant of an Antivirus program loads from MBR, I have found that fdisk /mbr gets rid of it.
HOWEVER! It is usually sufficient to disable the mobo AV, IF YOU PLAN on using the very same ANTIVIRUS program.
After all, fdisk /mbr is not without dangers...

Special Features and programs like antivirus and goback should be completely disabled before you run a repair setup over an existing windows installation.

(if you ever did an over the top, in conditions like these, you will know how many error messages you saw.)

< end paste
==========
huh? butter?
yep! All this stuff can be found in that long thread I call butter.
it's right here
¦¦
¦¦
\/

[jtdoom]

so, let's do this again

first, disable mobo AV
(if you cannot, you will have to use setup with /ir switch)
the AV that kicked in... if it was a RED screen, it prolly was norton or mcafee (they kinda tell you.)
if it was a greenish screen, it prolly was motherboard AV

I am assuming you cannot disable it... and you have to do this anew;

format C: /Q /autotest

(actually, I think that mobo AV should have kicked in when you did this...)

reboot from floppy

C:
cd\
copy A:\*.*
A:
sys C:


shut
put the CD tray in
and boot

one looks for the letter given to CDROM device
With a little luck, you see what letter was given to the CDROM-drive
you are at C:\>_ prompt

cd\
md DOS
cd DOS
copy C:\*.*
cd\
md win98
cd win98
copy D:\win98
del C:\*.*
setup /P J /ir
=====================
like the above post tells you, when the first reboot happens, you boot from floppy and run SYS C:
pull floppy, restart machine, and let setup continue
=====================

[norge]

Hello Jaak,

well i'm very happy to inform you that everything worked out for me. I was able to shut off the virus program thrue the bios, so this was as easy as it gets...
I did install win98 after and it works ok. I still have to find the right drivers, since a couple of hardware functions arent recognised yet...I have to look this up and see what kind of hardware this is.
Other than that It seems to work fine!
Just a last question, since U know so mutch about this, "is it possible that the harddisk (c can loose memory in the setup from windows?" I ask you this because it seems that the harddisk is so small (less than a GIG). I don't know for sure how big it was before the crash, so I have to ask this. Perhaps there's another harddisk i don't know about (I wonder because of the hardware not found, that i mentioned earlier).
First let me thank you for your help..it was kind of troubling to make this laptop work again because of the changable driver!

Norge