5 teens charged with 101 offences – gangland revenge

[legalsuit]

A group of teenagers entered a Sydney High School at 8.45am (AEST) Monday, armed with baseball bats, a machete and a sword and, rampaged through the School, showed no remorse for their crimes. Together, the youths face a total of 101 charges, including multiple counts of assault, affray, malicious damage, as well as participating in a criminal group.

Understandably, public opinion is that "the premeditated actions of the young persons were an attack on the rights and freedoms enjoyed by Australians on a daily basis, to attend school in an atmosphere of safety and security.”

Certain criminal behaviour amongst our youth, can normally be pinpointed to certain demographic environments, surrounding influences and peer pressure. But, this particular open, blatant attack being uncommon criminal behaviour in Australia has raised public concern about our youth.

Given such astonishing news (http://cosmos.bcst.yahoo.com/up/player/popup/?rn=248153&cl=7310088&ch=248154&src=y7news), how can properly defined values, and general respect nowadays be instilled in our youth to avoid further such incidences and reckless attitudes?

[DELTREE]

Another sad story! This is why we need people with guns! If you see someone with a baseball bats, machete and a sword and they are coming your way: SHOOT THEM! and ask questions later. I hear this CRAP? call the police! by the time you get to your phone!? I just maybe to late.
Everyone should have about 3-6 guns in their home, just to keep the TOADS at bay!!!
Just trying to help when there is a problem. Your Friend in need DELTREE
THANK YOU! :happy:

[legalsuit]

DELTREE, we have gun laws in Australia...so your suggestion would be illegal.

With all due respect to those countries that allow guns, the majority concensus here, is that coming out "guns blazing" would also be an unacceptable approach.

Don't forget, we're talking kids here...under 18s. There must be a better way to reach them.

[dammit]

Our cops use these (http://www.tazers.com/) over here, personally I prefere the gun option.

[DELTREE]

A so called kid can kill as well as anyone. Don't worry about the TOADS! they are not worried about you. The best way to reach a (kid) toad is: at about 15 ft. with a shot gun with 00 buck.
Don't forget they are armed with baseball bats, a machete and a sword and, rampaged through the School.
If there was someone at the school? know telling what may of happened??
I don't care what anyone may say, you need about 4-8 guns in the home.

[Snurfen]

If the parents of these kids had three to six (or eight) guns at their homes, the outcome of this story may have been a lot more serious.

It may suit the USA, but most other countries don't want them so freely available.

[smurfy]

And what "culture" do you think these Aussie kids are imitating?

For those that advocate gun ownership on the grounds that "since the crims have them, so should we", personally, I'd much rather live in a society where you know where you stand. If I see a person with a gun here, I know I can call the cops because that person is not just some Joe Citizen exercising his right to bear arms.

I don't care what anyone may say
And that pretty much sums it up.

[dammit]

Cops should be allowed to carry guns, and be allowed to use them. The public are a different matter. The US gun laws are frankly stupid, but so are ours. I think you should be allowed to own a gun in the home for personal protection, taking it out on the street is where the mark is crossed.

[DELTREE]

We are talking about that do crimes, not the GOOD folks.
I was grew up in the BIG city and now live in the country. Just about everyone has a gun or few, no big deal.
I hear this, I will just call the police, the problem with that is: you may not be able to call them.
I think we here in the U.S. look at this problem different then some of you good folks from other countries.
The way I look at it is, if you want a gun or not that is up to you.
GUNS! are not the problem. It is the TOAD behind the gun that maybe the problem.

[The Dude]

Very sad :(

[rockboy]

...

Given such astonishing news (http://cosmos.bcst.yahoo.com/up/player/popup/?rn=248153&cl=7310088&ch=248154&src=y7news), how can properly defined values, and general respect nowadays be instilled in our youth to avoid further such incidences and reckless attitudes? I'm not being trite when I say it's how they're raised, peer pressure, the presence of positive role models and the values they're taught while growing up that guide them in how to act. There are no guarantees.

The brains of teens (http://life.familyeducation.com/teen/growth-and-development/36499.html?detoured=1) are less developed in the areas that would usually control such behavior. No particular country is immune to that. Guns are a gut reaction to a problem but are not the answer. I have guns to protect my home but don't carry them anywhere else. Having guns everywhere is not an option. Can you see school teachers, office receptionists and coffee shop barristas carrying guns (just in case)?

Teens are not concerned with consequences and are more impulse driven. They will always do stupid things. I can't say if it's any particular media but the casual exposure to sex and violence at an early age makes it harder to instill normal values.

Good luck.

[legalsuit]

Our cops use these (http://www.tazers.com/) over here, personally I prefer the gun option.

In Australia, police use their guns in situations only when absolutely necessary. Otherwise, Tazers and Capsicum Spray are effectively used in extreme and necessary situations.

[legalsuit]

...it's how they're raised, peer pressure, the presence of positive role models and the values they're taught while growing up that guide them in how to act. There are no guarantees.

The brains of teens (http://life.familyeducation.com/teen/growth-and-development/36499.html?detoured=1) are less developed in the areas that would usually control such behavior. No particular country is immune to that. Guns are a gut reaction to a problem but are not the answer....

...I can't say if it's any particular media but the casual exposure to sex and violence at an early age makes it harder to instill normal values...

You've made some interesting and valid points and I agree positive influences at an early age can provide future guidelines. But again, as you've stated, there are no guarantees.

Interestingly, criminal profilers look at how criminals or potential criminals were raised, peer pressure, their "role models" and values taught as well as demographics. Criminal profilers also take into consideration when/how the brain affects a persons' action. Something you also touched on.

Media and "the casual exposure to sex and violence at an early age" has been a major issue with parents for some years. Their argument is that such exposure tends to "desensitise" children.

As for guns. I tend to agree with you. I don't believe they are the answer.

[Miz]

In Australia, police use their guns in situations only when absolutely necessary. Otherwise, Tazers and Capsicum Spray are effectively used in extreme and necessary situations.

It's the same in the U.S. Cops here also use rubber bullets, batons and probably a few other things before they resort to deadly force. Anytime there's a shooting by a cop, or cops, the shooting is investigated, usually thoroughly. Law enforcement is always looking for other, better, non-lethal solutions. The U.S. isn't the shooting range other cultures seem to think it is.

As far as "what's becoming of the kids today?" and "where are the parents?" I recall reading the same comments were voiced (and written) in ancient Greece. I don't know if the snerts (Snot-Nosed, Egotistical, Rampaging Teens) were more or less deadly then than some of them are today, though. ;)

[legalsuit]

Cops should be allowed to carry guns, and be allowed to use them. The public are a different matter. The US gun laws are frankly stupid, but so are ours. I think you should be allowed to own a gun in the home for personal protection, taking it out on the street is where the mark is crossed.

Unlike the UK, police in Australia carry guns...but they have to justify its use.

As for the general publics' use:
The possession and use of firearms in Australia is governed by state laws (so type of condition of ownership can vary). However, any person wishing to buy, own, or use a firearm, must have a Firearms Licence and be over 18.

A "Genuine Reason" must be given for having each and every firearm, relating to pest control, hunting, target shooting, or collecting. Self-defence is not accepted as a reason for issuing a licence.

Overall, gun laws are strictly maintained here which favourably reflects to the type of criminal offences here.

[legalsuit]

And what "culture" do you think these Aussie kids are imitating?

For those that advocate gun ownership on the grounds that "since the crims have them, so should we", personally, I'd much rather live in a society where you know where you stand. If I see a person with a gun here, I know I can call the cops because that person is not just some Joe Citizen exercising his right to bear arms.


And that pretty much sums it up.

I agree with your comments.

Rockboy also pointed out the influence of different media...valid point, because it is the media that introduces different types of "cultures".

And the attitude of "since the crims have them, so should we" just doesn't wash here.

[legalsuit]

It's the same in the U.S. Cops here also use rubber bullets, batons and probably a few other things before they resort to deadly force. Anytime there's a shooting by a cop, or cops, the shooting is investigated... The U.S. isn't the shooting range other cultures seem to think it is.

As far as "what's becoming of the kids today?" and "where are the parents?" I recall reading the same comments were voiced (and written) in ancient Greece. I don't know if the snerts (Snot-Nosed, Egotistical, Rampaging Teens) were more or less deadly then than some of them are today, though. ;)

Australia’s urban crime rate is on par with most large cities in the US that have medium crime rates. Any sniff of improper police force goes through a series of wringers, internally and externally. So, we have much the same attitude here regarding how police act.

In cases of armed robberies reported throughout Australia, the weapon of choice is typically a knife. Although (illegal) firearms are sometimes used, they are the exception rather than the rule.

I had to smile at your comments re "what's becoming of the kids today?" and "where are the parents?" which held a lot of truth - it is the eras that change, but then, so do the laws.:happy:

[dammit]

I think I just stumbled upon DELTREE's place.... :rotflmao:

http://pixdaus.com/pics/12077011766rX29uA.jpg

[Miz]

It's easy enough to talk about shooting another human being but years ago I was in a situation where I had to make that choice and it's not all that easy to do.

It was the middle of the night, something woke me up, I heard the door to my apartment open, I heard somebody come in. It was a straight shot from my bed to where the intruder had to be in that tiny apartment.

I had the rifle aimed, the safety off but I didn't pull the trigger...and I didn't pull the trigger...and I didn't pull the trigger. Yes, the adrenaline was pumping and I still didn't pull the trigger even though I could hear the person getting closer...to within about 3 feet of where I was.

Turns out it was my landlady, who finally called my name, she needed to use my phone.

Had it been someone intent on doing damage to me or my stuff, my hesitation was long enough to let them get the upper hand.

So when I hear somebody talk about shooting another human being, I wonder if they know of what they speak. ;)

[legalsuit]

It's easy enough to talk about shooting another human being but years ago I was in a situation where I had to make that choice and it's not all that easy to do.

It was the middle of the night, something woke me up...

I had the rifle aimed, the safety off but I didn't pull the trigger... I could hear the person getting closer...to within about 3 feet of where I was.

Turns out it was my landlady... she needed to use my phone...

So when I hear somebody talk about shooting another human being, I wonder if they know of what they speak. ;)

That's scary stuff...and for the very reason of the possibility of such a misadventure, I am so glad we have strict gun laws in Australia.

Can you imagine the guilt, not to imagine the legal implications, had you injured or killed your landlady...horrible thought.

[Miz]

Another way to look at it is that rational adults aren't likely to go into a shooting spree no matter how many guns they have.

The problem is, of course, limiting gun ownership to rational adults. ;)

[DELTREE]

Nice picture dammit! you must have been over my house at one time!!:D
Guns are not the problem, it is the person behind the gun.
WHY? do some of our young one's do some DUMB things is a BIG question???
But! you have to pay for your actions.
Most of them are GOOD.
The landlady should have NOT went into the person apt. she may/could have been shot. legal implications: in the US, there would have been none.
You don't know what she may have been up to! I am glad he didn't shot her over a phone call. If it was my apt. there is a GOOD chance she would have been shot. THINGS HAPPEN!!!
the guilt: what guilt? someone walking around YOUR apt. at night, you don't know what they are up to. I am glad things worked out for the best.
I have to clean some of my guns now, but I will be keep and eye on this post. Your Friend in need DELTREE

[legalsuit]

...WHY? do some of our young one's do some DUMB things is a BIG question???...


That is a good question. One that's oft repeated, and answers continually searched.

Rockboy and other posters in this thread touched on significant points that provide aspects in response.

Personally, I reckon nowadays, there are a lot more influences to "trigger" actions, eg media that provide violent content in movies, shows, games which bombard its viewer (majority being youths) is often criticised with arguments that such material "desensitises" and "hardens" our youth.

[oink]

My wife often carrys a gun, and her secretary often carrys a gun. If you decide to assault or rob the ladies in that office, it might not go well for you. Tasers are wonderful tools, but the police training is that in situations where there is a potential threat of death or serious bodily injury, the taser should only be used if there is back-up officer armed with and ready to utilize a firearm. Tasers don't always work. Defence is the absolutely best reason to have a gun. Unfortunately, every culture needs police. The problem with relying on police is that they almost always get there after the fact. If you depend solely on the police to protect you and your loved ones, you are dreaming and gambling with your and their lives. The general breakdown of society is not caused by guns. The causes can and have been debated but it would be nice if someone had the balls to actually address the issues.