Right to carry -- St. Louis area

Baser-X · #1 October 9th, 2003, 08:08 PM

If you live in or around St. Louis, MO you are already probably well aware that the right to carry a concealed weapon law was passed a couple weeks back and it goes into effect Saturday, October 11, 2003 at 12:01AM.

I for one have never legally owned a gun in my life, I prefer knives. Big razor sharp and preferably serrated (my current favorite is a bayonette that was used in the Korean war, razor sharp tip and approximately 1" down the blade then serrated for the remainder of the blade). But, I think we've all learned the lesson, even if just from movies, that you can't bring a knife to a gunfight... So, I fully intend to purchase my first legal firearm this weekend and to take the required courses in order to get my permit.

So what's everyone else both in St. Louis and outside of St. Louis think of this? What sort of impact will it have on society in general?

Personally, I think things will be tense at first. I know a lot of people who have no business carrying a gun, but since they have no criminal record, they can now get one and carry it legally, and they will. Throw some alcohol in the mix and there's going to be some problems initially too, but one or two news stories about drunks, guns and punishment will deter a lot of that. I'm not sure what the specific penalty is for discharging a legally carried weapon while under the influence is, but the police have made it clear that the punishment will be severe.

So anyway, on this boring Thursday afternoon I thought I'd seek out the opinions of other intelligent human beings..... and have a poll while I'm at it.

**degsy** · #2 October 10th, 2003, 01:08 AM

wrong thread

**zipulrich** · #3 October 10th, 2003, 01:50 AM

So you did just get back from the local pub, degs!!

lufbra · #4 October 10th, 2003, 03:05 AM

Hey Baser, before this law was "passed", did nobody in the state ever carry a concealed weapon? I'm just trying to understand why such a law had to be passed there!

Baser-X · #5 October 10th, 2003, 03:51 PM

Quote:

Originally Posted by lufbra

Hey Baser, before this law was "passed", did nobody in the state ever carry a concealed weapon? I'm just trying to understand why such a law had to be passed there!

Well, considering St. Louis has had one of the highest murder rates per capita for years, it is pretty safe to assume lot of people were carrying concealed weapons, regardless of the legalities. I always have at least one knife on me at all times (more if I have my backpack), and technically that is considered a concealed weapon because the blade is 5" long. Last year, St. Louis had the distinct honor of being ranked as the most violent city in the country (and that was after a significant decrease in the murder rate). I'm sure there's more to it than just the murder/violent crime rate, but I'd imagine that was a heavy factor in pushing this law through. It's taken a long time to get passed, this is the 4th or maybe 5th time it has been on the ballot over the past 2 or 3 years and it always gets shot down by a very narrow margin. I think last time around it lost with 53% against or something like that.

errolo · #6 October 10th, 2003, 04:19 PM

I voted definately, because I have a concealed carry license. Here in Louisiana we have had a concealed carry law on the books for a number of years. Problem with this law (and I'd be willing to bet it will be the same in St. Louis) is that there are many more places that you cannot carry than you can carry.

Louisana is home to many, many hunters, and as such, a certain familiarity with guns goes with the territory. Probably not as pervasive in the more metro areas such as in New Orleans, though.

Louisiana has some pretty relaxed rules for non-concealed carry also, which makes the concealed part rather ironic. I can walk down practically any street with a handgun on my hip or a shotgun across my back, just not at the same time, that's illegal.

As an aside, I was in St. Louis just a week or so ago, Unfortunately, I didn't get to see much except for the airport and hotel. Was going to take the train downtown but ran out of time. Also, didn't know St Louis was some kind of murder capital, don't feel so bad about not getting downtown, now.

Baser-X · #7 October 10th, 2003, 05:38 PM

Quote:

Originally Posted by errolo

I voted definately, because I have a concealed carry license. Here in Louisiana we have had a concealed carry law on the books for a number of years. Problem with this law (and I'd be willing to bet it will be the same in St. Louis) is that there are many more places that you cannot carry than you can carry.

Louisana is home to many, many hunters, and as such, a certain familiarity with guns goes with the territory. Probably not as pervasive in the more metro areas such as in New Orleans, though.

Louisiana has some pretty relaxed rules for non-concealed carry also, which makes the concealed part rather ironic. I can walk down practically any street with a handgun on my hip or a shotgun across my back, just not at the same time, that's illegal.

As an aside, I was in St. Louis just a week or so ago, Unfortunately, I didn't get to see much except for the airport and hotel. Was going to take the train downtown but ran out of time. Also, didn't know St Louis was some kind of murder capital, don't feel so bad about not getting downtown, now.

Mmmmm New Orleans. Just went there for the first time back in August. I had a great time. I had lots of warnings about not venturing into alleys or other unpopulated areas, but we stumbled drunk everywhere and took a really "bad" way to Jackson Square from Bourbon St. at like 3 in the morning. The bartender we got directions from was trying to convince us to wait until morning, but we made without any problems. I can't wait to go back when I have more time, 4 days just wasn't enough. But, it's kind of the same in St. Louis, you'll hear all kinds of warnings, but the odds of getting into trouble are fairly slim.

Despite being the "murder capital" of the country, downtown St. Louis is a pretty cool place and is just as safe as any other city (it's more likely you'll hit up for spare change by a bum than robbed, assaulted, raped, or murdered). Where you are most likely to get into trouble in St. Louis is when you venture off in the neighborhoods, especially in the north city. And from my experience, as a general rule avoid areas around the bus station. One of the worst experiences in my life took place not two steps outside of the bus station in Atlanta (someone tried to sell me some "crack" I told him to f*** off, he tried to snatch my backpack and we got into a little fight, we both ended up in jail after the police decided to beat on us both). In St. Louis, the bus station is on the corner of Cass and St. Louis Ave., and I would not recommend getting lost in that area in the daytime much less after dark, you will be robbed, raped, killed or all of the above and then some. But even though that's technically downtown, it's so far away from everything to do downtown, it's unlikely you'd ever see that part of the city as a visitor unless you came in and/or left by bus.

errolo · #8 October 10th, 2003, 08:47 PM

Wow, Baser, NOLA in August! That can be a killer (no pun intended, well maybe just a little one), the heat and humidity can be really bad if you're not use to it. Much beer will be needed to sustain the body.

Anyway, glad you had a good time, safe also. Next time try to spend a little time down my way. I'm in Lafayette, about a 2 hour drive by interstate west of NOLA. There is an outdoor festival practically every weekend year round. And I can almost guarantee that you will gain an easy 5 lbs before you leave, 10 lbs if you're not into dancing.

lufbra · #9 October 11th, 2003, 02:50 AM

Going back to the original question about the right to carry a concealed weapon. I think it's a sad day when any state or whatever, has to put this kinda thing to the vote. You say St. Louis has the highest murder rate, but how does allowing the right to carry a concealed weapon, help this in any way? Do you think this will solve the problem of having the highest murder rate?

Junky · #10 October 11th, 2003, 05:20 AM

If you look closely at all the (united) states that do not have a "right to carry", they all have high crime rates; and then there's Washington DC...that's another story in itself!!! The states that do have the "right to carry" have the lowest crime rates. Criminals will admit that they will not fool with a person or a home if they think they have a chance of running into someone with a gun. So, the more people that carry, the less likely they will be confronted by a thug! Less Crime!

Here in Oregon there has been a "right to carry" law for many years. Crime is low. Out of all the thousands of people that "carry" here in Oregon, only a fraction of one persent has ever had their "carry" license taken away, or have been commited of a crime, and this is over several years. There has never been a crime commited with a hand gun, by a person with the "right to carry". I guess these people are VERY responsible. Yes? It's the criminal that you have to be worried about.

Criminals will always carry, no matter what. That's why they are called "criminals". They break the law, steal, rape, murder, on and on. They will ALWAYS have a gun, no matter what the law says! The population of cops is going down because of wild spending of the government in all the wrong places. I'd say that's a darn good reason for the general population to carry a side arm.

Anyhoo, I'm all for self defence and the 2nd Amendment! Every man and woman has a "God given right" to defend themselves. OK, I'm done.

w1che · #11 October 11th, 2003, 05:45 AM

Yep the bad guys will always have their guns.. I live right outside of St Louis and they have already started to restrict the carry law so bad it's not going to be worth much. The court has put a hold on the law taking effect for now anyway..

renegade600 · #12 October 12th, 2003, 06:14 AM

A judge temporarily blocked a law that would make Missouri the 45th state to authorize concealed guns. See http://tinyurl.com/qm2w

oink · #13 October 12th, 2003, 06:46 AM

My 2 cents. I live and work in S. Fla. We have had "Shall issue" concealed permits for years. My wife is a realtor. I insisted that she obtain a permit. She is a pistol packin Mama. There have been few problems as a result. Even without a permit you can have a loaded concealed gun in your vehicle if the 3 step rule is followed. A gun in a snapped holster under the seat fits the rule. A gun carried openly in plain view in the vehicle is also legal. I have dealt with this in Fla from both ends (observe the name) for 18 years and I'm comfortable with the situation. It is assumed that a weapon is in a vehicle and no shock when proved true. I believe it should be the citizens right. I further believe it is unrealistic to believe that the police will always be there when needed most. I also spent several years on the job in a St Louis suburb. The criminal element possesed numerous firearms at that time. Why should law abiding citizens be restricted to less than that the criminals.

renegade600 · #14 October 12th, 2003, 09:18 PM

Quote:

Originally Posted by lufbra

Hey Baser, before this law was "passed", did nobody in the state ever carry a concealed weapon? I'm just trying to understand why such a law had to be passed there!

I think there was a concealed weapon law but only for specific reasons and professions. The general public could not.

psychocandy · #15 October 12th, 2003, 11:29 PM

can i vote for carring a concealed nuclear device

View Poll Results: If you were given the right to carry, would you?
Definately!	8	61.54%
No way!	3	23.08%
Undecided.	2	15.38%
Voters: 13. You may not vote on this poll