Open letter to George W Bush

[Ned Seagoon]

Below is a copy of an open letter to George W Bush from Michael Moore that I receive here in Australia, seems spot on.

Friday, September 2nd, 2005
Dear Mr. Bush:

Any idea where all our helicopters are? It's Day 5 of Hurricane Katrina and thousands remain stranded in New Orleans and need to be airlifted. Where on earth could you have misplaced all our military choppers? Do you need help finding them? I once lost my car in a Sears parking lot. Man, was that a drag.

Also, any idea where all our national guard soldiers are? We could really use them right now for the type of thing they signed up to do like helping with national disasters. How come they weren't there to begin with?

Last Thursday I was in south Florida and sat outside while the eye of Hurricane Katrina passed over my head. It was only a Category 1 then but it was pretty nasty. Eleven people died and, as of today, there were still homes without power. That night the weatherman said this storm was on its way to New Orleans. That was Thursday! Did anybody tell you? I know you didn't want to interrupt your vacation and I know how you don't like to get bad news. Plus, you had fundraisers to go to and mothers of dead soldiers to ignore and smear. You sure showed her!

I especially like how, the day after the hurricane, instead of flying to Louisiana, you flew to San Diego to party with your business peeps. Don't let people criticize you for this -- after all, the hurricane was over and what the heck could you do, put your finger in the dike?

And don't listen to those who, in the coming days, will reveal how you specifically reduced the Army Corps of Engineers' budget for New Orleans this summer for the third year in a row. You just tell them that even if you hadn't cut the money to fix those levees, there weren't going to be any Army engineers to fix them anyway because you had a much more important construction job for them -- BUILDING DEMOCRACY IN IRAQ!

On Day 3, when you finally left your vacation home, I have to say I was moved by how you had your Air Force One pilot descend from the clouds as you flew over New Orleans so you could catch a quick look of the disaster. Hey, I know you couldn't stop and grab a bullhorn and stand on some rubble and act like a commander in chief. Been there done that.

There will be those who will try to politicize this tragedy and try to use it against you. Just have your people keep pointing that out. Respond to nothing. Even those pesky scientists who predicted this would happen because the water in the Gulf of Mexico is getting hotter and hotter making a storm like this inevitable. Ignore them and all their global warming Chicken Littles. There is nothing unusual about a hurricane that was so wide it would be like having one F-4 tornado that stretched from New York to Cleveland.

No, Mr. Bush, you just stay the course. It's not your fault that 30 percent of New Orleans lives in poverty or that tens of thousands had no transportation to get out of town. C'mon, they're black! I mean, it's not like this happened to Kennebunkport. Can you imagine leaving white people on their roofs for five days? Don't make me laugh! Race has nothing -- NOTHING -- to do with this!

You hang in there, Mr. Bush. Just try to find a few of our Army helicopters and send them there. Pretend the people of New Orleans and the Gulf Coast are near Tikrit.

Yours,

Michael Moore
http://www.michaelmoore.com/

P.S. That annoying mother, Cindy Sheehan, is no longer at your ranch. She and dozens of other relatives of the Iraqi War dead are now driving across the country, stopping in many cities along the way. Maybe you can catch up with them (http://www.bringthemhomenowtour.org/index.php) before they get to DC on September 21st.

[Vercades]

The use of sarcasm....:eek: I think my brain just imploded. I'm not a fan of Micheal Moore but, in there he's got alot of points I have to agree with. I think at sections he crossed the line, blaming Bush for everything doesn't show the intelligence of a man, there's plenty of blame to go around.



Wait! Was that sarcasm? :dizzy:

[lufbra]

The use of sarcasm.

How else could Moore make his money!

While I agree on his point about getting aid "prepared" for the worst, his stabs at this government about the global warming, and the racism and poor part of it is all pathetic. Those things have been ongoing for years, no government has properly dealt with it!

To be sarcastic, why wasn't Moore out helping folks survive rather than wasting time writing a letter, when it could have been written afterwards!

[AnnieBanana]

I especially like how, the day after the hurricane, instead of flying to Louisiana, you flew to San Diego to party with your business peeps. Don't let people criticize you for this -- after all, the hurricane was over and what the heck could you do, put your finger in the dike?

I liked that too Neddie.

I was so impressed that a leader of a great continent like the US could touch down on day 5 and hug a few black americans and then everyone took him seriously.

[Tom]

I grew up on a chicken farm across Lake Ponchartrain from New Orleans. Lived there during Hurricanes Betsy and Camille. My aging Aunt and Unlce as of yesterday finally made their way north to the safety of my parent's home and my cousin is in New Orleans surviving, and staying busy. Haven't heard from my childhood pal as of yet, but he's a good man, resourceful, and most likely has his hands full helping others in the relief effort.

When Hurricane Betsy hit, we were without electricity, water and access to the outside world for a little over a week. Since we lived on a farm, we weren't very dependent on any infrastructure to meet our daily needs, so the isolation wasn't very threatening. Neighbors within walking distance had an in ground well for drinking water, and we brought eggs there to give to others who came for water.

Here in Orlando we had three hurricanes all at once last year, and the experience was much, much different. There were no immediate solutions for the loss of potable water, no stores for any food to eat, and the dependency on cars and telephones to meet our daily needs left us unprepared to do without. In the City of Orlando itself, with the higher population density, that dependency made the situation that much more life threatening, so I can grasp what has unfolded in New Orleans without surprise.

I do know that after the hurricanes here, I was fairly busy, working long hours and adapting when needed. I didn't have much time then to wonder what Michael Moore was doing. If he was one of the nameless people who were next to me running chainsaws and delivering food and water, I owe him a handshake and a thank you.

[AnnieBanana]

Whatever, I cannot be bothered with your politics:

Here is a transmission from a friend:

Internet down here is flaky to say the least when I can find a wireless signal. XX is fine. Himself, Wife, and Emily are 5 miles up the road. We chatted for a little while and I gave him some bags of ice and he headed back. Thanks for the offer Mark but I am under Martial Law here and can't leave. My Family chose to stay with me. I really do appreciate it. I will pass it on to XX as I will try to visit them daily. They have power by way of a pto driven generator on the back of the tractor and I'm running what I can off of a 5kw gas generator. I may be able to keep us all going with ice and gas for a while.Our Military training will pay off on this one. I have resorted to carrying my firearm with me because if someone finds out you have some essentials they may want them. I have seen and heard some horror stories even up here where we live. The thugs have approached the reserve unit here and boldly told them they know they have provisions and they are coming to get them. They had to surround they reserve unit with concertina wire. There is a tent city within a mile of my office for the electrical power workers here from out of town to help with the restoration and they too had to have concertina wire placed around their place. We have State Troopers, Local Sheriff's, Swat and local Police guarding all that they can. I'll post back when I can and feel free to post this on XX's site.

[AnnieBanana]

Makes me cry everytime I read it. These guys have been battered and bashed by natural forces for many years and have learned how to cope.

[jililan]

A funny letter, but sadly too true.

[AnnieBanana]

What do you find funny jililan?

[Miz]

As I understand it, according to the Constitution and the Posse Comitatus Act, in situations such as this active duty military personnel can only be sent in after the state governor requests them and then only after the National Guard has been called up. The National Guard can only be called up by state governors. So far, I haven't found any definitive information on exactly when all that occurred. Establishing the timeline is crucial in determining when and how and if things fell apart.

As I understand it, FEMA steps in only after certain criteria have been met. I don't know what they are since navigating the FEMA website to find out looks like it's going to be a day-long affair.

Meanwhile, implementing the New Orleans emergency disaster plan seems to have failed in at least one critical area. The plan called for school buses to be used to evacuate residents yet that does not seem to have been done.

Predictably, the left side of the political spectrum is blaming all the problems on Bush, the right side of the political spectrum is blaming it all on local officials.

There's plenty of blame to go around but it seems to me that blame laying could wait just a little longer until all the facts are in, the exact timeline is known and the hysteria has waned.

I think blame laying is a pointless, self-indulgent time waster. Problems are solved by defining the problem, identifying the cause or causes, designing and implementing solutions. If during that process an agency or person is discovered to have dropped the ball, then whatever caused that to happen is addressed, whether it's new protocols for an agency or new personnel to replace the one or ones who failed.

If finding fault and laying blame weren't such a popular sport, maybe the people who are supposed to be governing would spend a little more of their efforts on problem solving and a little less time dancing around to avoid blame. Yes, I admit I do tend to be unrealistic at times. ;)

[Tom]

I know an elderly woman who has the entire right side of her body paralyzed from a stroke. She is dependent on a motorized wheelchair, but refuses to go to a care home. She has a rope tied around the wrist of her bad arm, and uses her good hand to manipulate this like a puppet. Her mobile home is worn, she has litle money and few friends (she's sorta a grumpy person by nature). I have compassion for my family, friends and all who have trouble in my old home area of Louisiana right now, but aside from donating some available money, I had can't do much else for them. I can do what is at hand, though. Lord is she grumpy though!

(Miz, you ever notice how when you are hungry, a heaping plate full of blame still leaves you hungry?)

[AnnieBanana]

I think blame laying is a pointless, self-indulgent time waster. Problems are solved by defining the problem, identifying the cause or causes, designing and implementing solutions. If during that process an agency or person is discovered to have dropped the ball, then whatever caused that to happen is addressed, whether it's new protocols for an agency or new personnel to replace the one or ones who failed.

Of course you are correct.

Do you have any friends or family that have been affected Miz?

I would doubt it!

[Tom]

Smart guy once wrote, "It is a quiet place where I can keep enough perspective, and enough balance, to take my next small step up the clearly marked road that points to eternal values." I haven't had to worry about Kansas for quite some time now. Actually, I haven't had many worries about New Zealand, Canada, the U.K., Belgium, France and many others for at least the short time I have been visiting CTH. Nice people, nice place.

[Miz]

Of course you are correct.

Do you have any friends or family that have been affected Miz?

I would doubt it!


You doubt wrong, as a matter of fact.

I've lived through three hurricanes, my entire family lives on the Gulf Coast...except for me, that is. I live in Kansas where there are tornados instead of hurricanes.

[DELTREE]

Michael Moore is out in LEFt field!:dizzy:
People are trying and are doing the best they can!
From where I am sitting, I think he is a crack pot!!:surprised

[lufbra]

Meanwhile, implementing the New Orleans emergency disaster plan seems to have failed in at least one critical area. The plan called for school buses to be used to evacuate residents yet that does not seem to have been done.

Don't forget many of these would probably have been destroyed, and then it'd mean driving others in from afar, which may have been virtually impossible.

Also, isn't it kinda odd that Moore rears his ugly head when something major happens, it's almost as if at any other time he's insignificant. ;)

As for sending troops etc. out in rediness for such a tragic event, wouldn't they be doing that almost every week, just in case anothet "big one" develops. There's already been two more potential hurricanes since katrina, thank god they may turn out being tropical storms.

[Idnew]

The school buses were available why didn't the Mayor of N O use them for their poor and elderly? This is a link to a photo of them now under water. Why wasn't there adaquate supplies in the convention center and superdome where they were told to seek shelter? Lets start with a lack of local government leadership to blame for some of their now problems.

http://img.photobucket.com/albums/v678/w1che/bus_yard-rotate.jpg

[minorgeek]

Cheap shot Annie,and as it turned out wrong. That is what is wrong with jumping to conclusions. Miz defined the scenario in a concise and factual manner. She didn't say she liked it. I have lived on the gulf coast my entire life, seen hurricanes come and go.Ivan hit me for $40,000.00 but I didn't blame you or George Bush. The hard facts are:If you don't evacuate when told, you will likely die.When it is over(if you stay) you will have only yourself and whoever else stayed to help you for several days. The sick and elderly should have been forced to leave, and everyone else who didn't leave rolled the dice and lost. We had the same scenario in Grande Lagoon in Pensacola with the same results.Finally, if there is criminal blame to dredge up, lay it at the feet of the mayor and governor. They have the means, the power under the constitution and an oath of office to uphold.

[Ned Seagoon]

I am sorry that I posted this e-mail on this board. It was forwarded to me here in Australia by a friend also in Australia. On reading it, there seemed a lot of unanswered questions, that needed to be asked, and I guess will be answered in some subsequent inquiry.

From the sidelines it seems that many replying to this have adopted a stance based on their own political allegiance.

Doing that, in my opinion, is not helpful. Please do not let this lovely forum of ours degenerate to a mud slinging arena. People on any side of politics make mistakes, just because we support them in most things doesn't mean they should be let off the hook if there is an error of judgement, after all they get paid enough and have enough advisors around them to stay on the ball all the time.

Positive replies only please. (or funny ones if it's too hard to be positive) ;)

As said before, I'm on the sideline, I posted this to start the question asking process, not to harm this board.

[Spider]

As long as Michael Moore is helping out down there himself and not just sitting there
being a three-burger-ordering-celebrity-president-pummeler then I think he has some
valid points but they've all be made by others already.

But...if he is eatin' burgers and pointing fingers, then he is just being annoying.

[minorgeek]

The problem with that kind of journalism is that it is always after the fact. They seem to come out of the woodwork at a time like this. They are eclectic morons that prey off others suffering. Any fool can see there is a problem without Michael mucking about.

[lufbra]

Well so far I've seen quite a good number of "celebs" helping out on the Gulf Coast, no sign of Mr. Michael Moore yet!!! :D

[Spider]

no sign of Mr. Michael Moore yet!!! :D
I saw Sean Penn out there today, man he was mad at George :)

[TJolly]

Found this on another board:

http://www.theglobeandmail.com/special/audio/katrina.html

[AnnMarie]

^^^^^^
Bump

I dont accept the explanations either.

[w1che]

Man good politics thread even if most don't know what they are talking about.. It's a lot better than the how to cook a chicken threads..

Hi Ya'll....

By the way.. Moore is a nutcase & should be locked up for his own protection along with anyone that agrees with him... (:>)

[Miz]

The media could save a lot of time and expense by running a stock story whenever's there's a national disaster or crisis of any sort:

"Politicians are jockeying for political advantage. The majority party (makes no difference which one it is, this story will work) said the minority party is doing everything wrong. The minority party is saying the majority party is doing everything wrong. Black leaders (Al Sharpton and Jesse Jackson since it's apparent they're the only black people the media knows) say the African-American community was treated badly solely because they're black. Celebrities support whatever doesn't support conservatives. Religious leaders support whatever doesn't support liberals. The New York Times says Fox News is now and forever will be wrong. The media is hysterical. Film at eleven."

[DonBB]

Great post Miz, all of them. Its true, the timeline will tell. Bottom line, its the mayor and governors responsibility first, and coming on TV looking like a scared little kid crying is not the way a leader should engage a crisis. Thats why Bush sent in Honoree, (may be mispelled), to take control and make things happen. The only thing the governor and mayor are in charge of is the city of N.O. and the state of LA, the president has got a little more on his plate. I'm not saying he's not responsible, because he is the president of the entire United States, but the timeline will tell.

P.S. Michael Moore is a predator who uses the weak in times of crisis to deliver his political agendas. He is a waste of human breath, and I think the world would be better off without him.

[Nick Grana]

By the way.. Moore is a nutcase & should be locked up for his own protection along with anyone that agrees with him...
I guess a lot of folks should be locked up: George Carlin, Chris Rock, etc. (??)
Lock up someone? How about Bill O'Reilly who spouts unbiased opinions.
Oh, really? He's so far to the right he's horizonal to the ground.:rotflmao:
There are plenty for chains and shackles but geez, give it a break.:wave:

[Snurfen]

Problems are solved by defining the problem, identifying the cause or causes, designing and implementing solutions. If during that process an agency or person is discovered to have dropped the ball, then whatever caused that to happen is addressed, whether it's new protocols for an agency or new personnel to replace the one or ones who failed.

Miz, whilst driving home from work yesterday,I listened to an astonishing peice on BBC Radio4 (not a station given to hysteria or xenophobia). Several senior figures from countries and aid agencies trying to provide real, immediate, desperately needed aid to the relief zone spoke at length, with clarity and with prior experience of similar aid efforts.
All of them where in a state of despair at the red tape being put in front of them PREVENTING them taking personnel, equipment and supplies into the zone. The relevant agency was named, but to be honest, I can't remember which acronymn was given.
They spoke to one Canadian Navy captain who was being prevented from entering US waters to deliver helicopters and pumps. He was very even handed, but scathing in his summary of the ridiculous state of affairs he found himself in.

What has stunned us in Europe is the lack of prepardness. It was known the hurricane was coming, it was known the levees or dykes (sorry for the ignorance) were going to be breached and New Orleans and others like it were about to suffer devastating flooding. It appears to those outside the area that there were no thorough workable disaster plans in place. There also appears to have been an appalling delay in getting real, useful, appropriate help into the area after the event.

I am not well versed in what triggers what constitutionaly. I am well versed in compassion, in disaster scenarios, such as this, you sometimes have to throw the procedures to the back of the office and ACT NOW.

Michael Moore may leave a bad taste in your mouth (personally, I think he acts quite well as the Devil's Advocate) but some of the points in his open letter cannot be denied and should not be ignored or gainsayed.

I have sincere and heartful concern for those affected and am genuinely greatful to those endeavouring to help those in the area. But get real and kick some ass to make sure this pathetic response to a natural disaster is never repeated.

[DonBB]

I don't see how you can say Bill O'reilly is far right, maybe if you're getting your opinion from The New York Times or the likes. If you watch his show he really does give unbiased opinions, he tells it like it is. I believe he is very opinionated, and I do consider fox news to be a conservative news agency, but when someone drops the ball, he calls them on it, no matter if its President Bush or anyone else for that matter. Every night one of his talking points is the fact that Bush refuses to protect the borders, someone that is extreme right would never say something like that, much less repeatedly make it a topic of discussion. Sorry, I have a problem with going off topic, this should be about the Michael Morre letter but I had to give my two cents.

[Miz]

I have no problem believing the combination of the government's love of red tape and the inevitable...errr..."urination competition" among pompous twits in every agency at every level have been major contributors to the screwups.

"The buck stops here" is just as true now at it was when Truman had it on his desk. The top dog is always ultimately responsible.

The reality is that there are three top dogs in this fight...a mayor, a governor and a president. Each has his or her own culpability for what went wrong and, conversely, deserves credit for what went right. For example, people are praising Gen. Honore but I haven't seen anybody give credit to Bush for sending him.

I don't believe that what Bush did or did not do reflects on Republicans or conservatives any more than what Blanco and Nagin did reflects on Democrats or liberals. I do not believe that Republicans, conservatives, Democrats, iberals, moderates or, even those respected political experts in Hollywood ;) would conciously choose to create chaos in order to make the "other guys" look bad.

The disheartening thing is the immediate, strident "let's blame THAT guy" when the problems started getting out in the media. I believe most, of not all of the blame game was, and is, a crass, craven jockeying for political gain.

As far as Micheal Moore goes, I believe he and all other dissenters not only have the right to speak their minds but also perform an important function in a democratic republic. Dissenters have always been annoying. Dissenters, both conservative and liberal, freely expressing their opinions is, to me, a sign of a healthy free system.

It's just that the wealth of misinformation, half-truths, outright lies and media hysteria we are inundated with daily makes it more and more difficult for the voters to sort through it all to get to the facts so they can make an informed decisions at the polls. Sadly, there are factions on both ends of the political spectrum who don't bother to sort through the dreck to get at the truth.

[DonBB]

Absolutely, Michael Moore and every other American has the right to speak their opinion and be heard, and it is healthy, but its the fact that he wraps his opinions in the lies and "half truths," that you speak of that bothers me. There are too many ignorant people in the nation that don't give it a second thought, or question the validity of the statements being thrown at them. This is what makes Michael Moore dangerous, because people take it to the polls. I personally know a lot of people that based their vote on Fareheit 9/11, and still to this day believe that it was a great documentary. That is extremely frightening to me. People have to understand it is their responsibility to make educated decisions, feel however you want to feel, but do it because you truly believe in your position, not because "that guy" feels so strongly about it.

[tramtwo]

Thought I should say somethin'

Two days after the storm there was endless helicopter traffic, endless I tell you hundreds in the sky at the same time.

Bell chase a small local naval air station has about 40 flights a day. For quite some time now they have been having a hundred flights an hour.

It must be nice to be in lofty towers throwing spears at one another. I have food and water, both provided by the relief effort. I am so thankful. Hell power was restored to my office three days after the storm. We don't need a bunch of spotlight hogs trying to make a name for themselves out of our misery.

Dale

Oh and one other thing... when this thread has long since died and a new story has bumped this one away remember there will be people here still trying to rebuild lives. You know what? We are not so special, right now somewhere in the world a man is trying to figure out how he will feed his family, oh if the resources were spent on making stories instead of telling them.

PEACE

[Tweaker]

Hey Tram! :wave:

Glad to hear your ok, people here were asking about you.

[lufbra]

Why is it that after such disasters, the crapola hits the fan?

Let's look at this another way, the Gulf Coast is basically "hurricane country", am I right? How many hurricanes have been there just in this one year alone, then how many for all the previous years? If they weren't prepared for the 'big one" this time, they sure as heck weren't ever prepared for any other possible "big ones", they've just been so darn lucky up untill now.

I just don't see how this can be a poltical issue, when all parties had the chance to make things right.

[tramtwo]

Hey Tram! :wave:

Glad to hear your ok, people here were asking about you.

Thanks. :wave:

[Tweaker]

I just don't see how this can be a poltical issue, when all parties had the chance to make things right.


Well considering the federal government should have acted long ago to protect New Orleans by fixing those levy's and President Bush repeatedly requested less money for programs to guard against catastrophic storms in New Orleans than many federal and state officials requested, decisions that are triggering a partisan debate over administration priorities at a time when the budget is strained by the Iraq war.

Bush's decision to hold down spending on fortifying levees around New Orleans reflected a broader shuffling of resources -- to pay for tax cuts and the Iraq invasion -- that has left the United States more vulnerable.

There was a failure by our government to meet the responsibility here.

I'd say it's a political issue.... ;)

[tramtwo]

There are projects that were started almost 40 years ago that have not been completed (funding has been in place forever). Flood protection is a slow process at best. The river system took almost 150 years to complete.

Our present system was designed for a cat 3 storm. A cost analysis was done at the time (middle 60's) and that is all that could be afforded.

At best any new efforts will take a life time. Presidents come and go. The blame game is a bunch of BS. Predicting nature is more art than science and probably always will be. Besides I don't think most natives would want a series of flood walls running throughout the city in an attempt to create water tight compartments...

I'm tired... thanks

[w1che]

WASHINGTON, D.C. — Before Hurricane Katrina breached a levee on the New Orleans Industrial Canal, the Army Corps of Engineers had launched a $748 million construction project at that very location. But the project had nothing to do with flood control. The Corps was building a massive new lock for the canal, an effort to accommodate steadily increasing barge traffic.

Except barge traffic on the canal has been steadily decreasing.

In Katrina’s wake, Louisiana politicians and other critics have complained about paltry funding for the Army Corps in general and Louisiana projects in particular. But over the five years of President Bush’s administration, Louisiana has received far more money for Corps civil works projects than any other state, about $1.9 billion; California was a distant second with less than $1.4 billion, even though its population is more than seven times larger.

Much of that Louisiana money was spent to try to keep low-lying New Orleans dry. But hundreds of millions of dollars have gone to unrelated water projects demanded by the state’s congressional delegation and approved by the Corps, often after economic analyses that turned out to be inaccurate. Despite a series of independent investigations criticizing Army Corps construction projects as wasteful pork-barrel spending, Louisiana’s representatives have kept bringing home the bacon.
>>>>>>>>>>>>>>
Guess who has been running NOLA & the state of Louisiana for years on top of years? If you said the Democrats you would be right..

Hey Tram, glad your safe.. :wave:

[Miz]

Don't forget the lawsuits brought by environmental groups that are not only costing the Army Corps of Engineers a lot of our tax dollars to defend but also have contributed to the disaster in New Orleans:

"n the wake of Hurricane Betsy 40 years ago, Congress approved a massive hurricane barrier to protect New Orleans from storm surges that could inundate the city.

But the project, signed into law by President Johnson, was derailed in 1977 by an environmental lawsuit." The rest of that New York Times story is on this page (http://www.latimes.com/news/nationworld/nation/la-na-surge9sep09,1,7901524.story?coll=la-home-headlines&ctrack=1&cset=true).

[Tweaker]

I think this saids it all....

http://www.thefairandbalancednews.com/Countdown-Timeline-Katrina.wmv



In fiscal year 2006, the New Orleans district of the U.S. Army Corps of Engineers is bracing for a record $71.2 million reduction in federal funding. It would be the largest single-year funding loss ever for the New Orleans district, Corps officials said. :hmm:

[tramtwo]

WASHINGTON, D.C. — Before Hurricane Katrina breached a levee on the New Orleans Industrial Canal, the Army Corps of Engineers had launched a $748 million construction project at that very location. But the project had nothing to do with flood control. The Corps was building a massive new lock for the canal, an effort to accommodate steadily increasing barge traffic.

Except barge traffic on the canal has been steadily decreasing.

In Katrina’s wake, Louisiana politicians and other critics have complained about paltry funding for the Army Corps in general and Louisiana projects in particular. But over the five years of President Bush’s administration, Louisiana has received far more money for Corps civil works projects than any other state, about $1.9 billion; California was a distant second with less than $1.4 billion, even though its population is more than seven times larger.

Much of that Louisiana money was spent to try to keep low-lying New Orleans dry. But hundreds of millions of dollars have gone to unrelated water projects demanded by the state’s congressional delegation and approved by the Corps, often after economic analyses that turned out to be inaccurate. Despite a series of independent investigations criticizing Army Corps construction projects as wasteful pork-barrel spending, Louisiana’s representatives have kept bringing home the bacon.
>>>>>>>>>>>>>>
Guess who has been running NOLA & the state of Louisiana for years on top of years? If you said the Democrats you would be right..

Hey Tram, glad your safe.. :wave:

Thanks,

We have had 12 years of Republican govern-ship (Treen and Foster). ;)


Since the Longs we have a well earned reputation, if a nickle out of ever dollar gets to the problem the citizens are lucky. I had A cajun rice MRE for lunch, very tasty.

[DELTREE]

This is not a Fed.Government problem, it is a State problem.

I had A cajun rice MRE for lunch, very tasty. Sounds GOOD to me! I wonder if they come in C-rations?;)

[Nick Grana]

I had A cajun rice MRE for lunch, very tasty. Sounds GOOD to me! I wonder if they come in C-rations?
You old war dog. MRE's are good but 'Heated Meals' are even better. I had a leftover Veggie Lasagna yesterday I brought back from Gulfport. Tasty.
C and K rations do bring back memories though.:wave:

P.S. It was mixed in with some other junk when I shagged out or I would have left it there for someone else.:(

[Snurfen]

This is not a Fed.Government problem, it is a State problem.

I had A cajun rice MRE for lunch, very tasty. Sounds GOOD to me! I wonder if they come in C-rations?;)
Ha ha, glad you can still smile through it. Must be tough on some of you guys and gals. Best of luck, we're thinking about you.

[amnell71]

I only made it through half of this thread. I will keep my opinions to myself, so as to keep this "positive and light-hearted" as requested. I must, however, say that Miz, you hit the nail on the head!!
The media could save a lot of time and expense by running a stock story whenever's there's a national disaster or crisis of any sort:

"Politicians are jockeying for political advantage. The majority party (makes no difference which one it is, this story will work) said the minority party is doing everything wrong. The minority party is saying the majority party is doing everything wrong. Black leaders (Al Sharpton and Jesse Jackson since it's apparent they're the only black people the media knows) say the African-American community was treated badly solely because they're black. Celebrities support whatever doesn't support conservatives. Religious leaders support whatever doesn't support liberals. The New York Times says Fox News is now and forever will be wrong. The media is hysterical. Film at eleven."

[AnnMarie]

An outsiders view (my sister, we are from New Zealand, talking to me about her impression of the US response to the Katrina emergency)

I couldn't believe the lack of resources in a country that was supposed to one of the most civilised in the world. He was quick to send troops to Iraq but far too late in sending them to Katrina victims. I guess if he has a conscience he is the one who will go to his death bed knowing innocent people died because of his inability to get help there in time. Rather him than me.

Naive huh?

[Tweaker]

Amen sister!! ;)

[amnell71]

Ok, I tried to be quiet yesterday, but now I have to pipe up.

Something that most people are not understanding (mainly because of the media and Michael Moore type's) is that it is not the President's job to respond. There is an order in which things must occur - By Law!!

First responders are supposed to be the local government, who failed miserably - look at all the empty buses that were left and not used. AND, how about blaming the people themselves for not following the evacuation orders - there were many people who could have left and did not (please don't take that statement the wrong way - I feel very bad for these people, but some need to take responsibility for their own actions or lack therof).
Then the state government - it was Louisiana's Homeland Security Dept that stopped the Red Cross from offering food and water to the people at the stadium, because they were afraid more people would come. Then, the state must ask for assistance, after the Governor has called up the National Guard - not the President. Neither the Governor's nor the State Representatives and Senators did their jobs, none asked for assistance nor heeded the warnings from the weather centers, all of them asked for 24 hours to evaluate the situation!!!!

Yes, there is blame to be had, but it needs to be placed at the proper feet, at the right time. First we should get these people back on their own two feet, the blame game can wait.

[Idnew]

Very good amnell71 most people don't seem to realize that it starts at the local and state levels first. Now they have 500+ buses that could have been used to evacute the poor and elderly out and didn't that are now underwater. Why didn't the Governor ask for drivers for those buses? By the time the Governor made up her mind if they needed the federal help NOLA was underwater and that along with the gun toting looters shooting at rescuers made for a bad situation. President Bush did order the gulf states as disaster areas but until he was asked to send in troops he could do nothing and the only one doing the hollering is NOLA and their own Mayor did not have provisions in place for the ones that evacuated to the convention center or the Superdome..

[Nick Grana]

Hurricane Risk for New Orleans (http://americanradioworks.publicradio.org/features/wetlands/hurricane1.html) dated 9/2002.
It's coming....it's coming....it's here...."KYAGB—kiss your a$$ good bye."
Pretty good read.:fyi:
New Orleans fell do to snafu's. The Mississippi gulf coast fell because of Katrina.
:(

[Vercades]

Like father like son...

Anyone remember Hurricane Andrew? Back then, President Bush did the same thing his son did with this hurricane disaster. Just thought you guys would like to know..

[Snurfen]

Hi Lisa, welcome back, long time no hear.

What bothers me about all this (and I mentioned it in my earlier rambling diatribe in this thread) is that there are certain times when it is morally and humanly irresponsible NOT to ignore the rules. This is one hell of an advert for people NOT TO BE sitting on their thumbs when they should be acting, regardless of what legaly is in place. We all know the Law is an Ass sometimes.

I don't mean this to be a reflection on the personell involved at ground level, but Dubya and Blair found it pretty easy to ignore the rule book when they went blundering into Iraq. They totally ignored a very specific UN statement saying any incursions into Iraq were illegal.

[lufbra]

Anyone remember Hurricane Andrew? Back then, President Bush did the same thing his son did with this hurricane disaster. Just thought you guys would like to know

I thought it was already made clear that it wasn't the Presidents job to take control from the beginning, so why is there any need to try blaming him or his Father in the past!

[Miz]

I thought it was already made clear that it wasn't the Presidents job to take control from the beginning, so why is there any need to try blaming him or his Father in the past!

Probably because when a mind is made up, the facts mean nothing. That's the way humans have always been and I've seen no signs humans will be changing anytime soon.

I think it's sad that some are apparently preferring to allow their hatred of Bush blind them to the facts. Unless those facts are examined dispassionately to uncover exactly what went wrong and why, there is no hope of fixing whatever the problems were. Without effective solutions, another mess like the aftermath of Katrina not only may but undoubtedly will happen again.

What would it say about us as a nation if more people suffer like the victims of Katrina have suffered because of partisan politics?

[Ned Seagoon]

See this first hand report of the aftermath, posted without comment from me:
http://www.theglobeandmail.com/special/audio/katrina.html

[Vercades]

I thought it was already made clear that it wasn't the Presidents job to take control from the beginning, so why is there any need to try blaming him or his Father in the past!

I just found it ironic that the disaster was handled the same way. George Sr. basically said the exact same thing George Jr. said at the press meeting over the hurricane disasters. Could be the media or it could be the president. I'm just saying the apple don't fall too far from the tree.

[Miz]

There were four hurricanes in six weeks in Florida last year. FEMA is generally credited with doing an outstanding job.

The same people were in charge of FEMA this year but different states were involved. Could it possibly be that some of the problems can be traced to the state level?

[DELTREE]

Miz, Could it possibly be that some of the problems can be traced to the state level? "YES".

I keep hearing Pres.Bush this and Pres. Bush that. What's he have to do with it? And also talk about Iraq, what's it have to do with the Katrina?
Look at Florida,when they have a hurricane;they don't act like animals!

The poor this and the poor that, It has nothing to do with the POOR.

[AnnMarie]

Bush Admits Failings On Katrina Response (http://xtramsn.co.nz/news/0,,11965-4765468,00.html)

I guess he had no other option really. Excerpt from the National Response Plan

"The President leads the Nation in responding efficiently and ensuring the necessary resources are applied quickly and effectively to all Incidents of National Significance."

Some interesting comments regarding this here (http://www.dailykos.com/storyonly/2005/9/5/225729/7487) too (warning...some language may offend).

[Vercades]

Dang! AM beat me too it. Even though he failed, I got to respect his ability to take the fire head on, instead of dancing around the flames.

[Tweaker]

How noble of him.... :sarcastic

[Deku Scrub]

http://www.post-gazette.com/pg/pp/05254/568876.stm

Here is a good read.
Exerpt:



Jason van Steenwyk is a Florida Army National Guardsman who has been mobilized six times for hurricane relief. He notes that:

"The federal government pretty much met its standard time lines, but the volume of support provided during the 72-96 hour was unprecedented. The federal response here was faster than Hugo, faster than Andrew, faster than Iniki, faster than Francine and Jeanne."

For instance, it took five days for National Guard troops to arrive in strength on the scene in Homestead, Fla. after Hurricane Andrew hit in 1992. But after Katrina, there was a significant National Guard presence in the afflicted region in three. Journalists who are long on opinions and short on knowledge have no idea what is involved in moving hundreds of tons of relief supplies into an area the size of England in which power lines are down, telecommunications are out, no gasoline is available, bridges are damaged, roads and airports are covered with debris, and apparently have little interest in finding out.



Another good read:
http://www.newsmax.com/archives/ic/2005/9/13/110122.shtml

The media's assault on pres Bush is unbelievable. I'm not a big fan of everything he does, but the Katrina situation is unreal.
It is my belief that the liberals are trying to convince the entire state of Louisiana that this is all Bush's fault.
Their motivation is simple: turn it into a blue state.
The Dems cannot win an election without a southern state, and they can't win a southern state to save their life. You better believe they will turn this into an issue in 2008. They're planning ahead.

[Miz]

I guess it all comes down to whether we, the voters, are as stupid as the politicians, both Democrat and Republican, and 90% of the media apparently think we are. Whether we'll believe what they tell us without question.

They're all, in my opinion, really, really unhappy over the political bloggers on the net. None of them have a stranglehold on information anymore. Whoever controls the information controls the people and now that information is a few mouse clicks away for those who want to take the time to do the research.

Of course, those who only read the sites that support the opinions they've already formed won't be able to take advantage of the masses of data at our disposal. Those who will read the sites supporting opposite points of view, though, have the potential to be the best informed voters this country's ever seen. This does not bode well for demagogues and ideologues...and they know it.

[AnnMarie]

Personally, I have no interest whatsoever in USA politics. What does disturb me and many others in my country is, on the face of information presented to us, human beings suffered and died needlessly in this terrible disaster.

From the link you posted here (http://www.post-gazette.com/pg/pp/05254/568876.stm) Deku Scrub

And federal troops and Guardsmen from other states cannot be sent to a disaster area until their presence has been requested by the governors of the afflicted states.

According to the information in the link I posted, the above statement is not true.

[Harrie]

Well, I've lived there all my life. I personally do not blame the mayor, the governor, the president, or anyone else. And Michael Moore makes me sick. Makes me want to throw up. The media in general very often also makes me sick.

Sorry, got a little emotional reading this thread. No use trying to say why I feel this way because I'm never good at that. What does it matter, anyway. But that's how I feel. I've seen amazing goodness and kindness and selflessness and incredible helpfulness from the American Red Cross, from people all over, basically everywhere I turn. I don't go for any of this blame game. When will we ever learn?

It just makes me ill. I've seen stories about a hospital, a hospital I worked for, making it sound as if they just left all these people to die, didn't care, took off and evacuated and to hell with them...that's what you'd think reading it. I happen to personally know that is so far from the truth of the matter. Geeez.

[zipulrich]

Yes, but Harrie - what do you know? You just lived through it first-hand, is all. ;)

[Idnew]

That was a great read Darth. Amazing they predicted exactly what did happen in NOLA 4 years ago and NOLA sat on their butts.

The old saying is........."You just don't mess with mother nature", but since they did they want the rest of us to foot the bill to try to fix it.