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  #1  
Old September 1st, 2017, 04:10 PM
Total Noob Total Noob is offline
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Tesla???

What's the deal with this car? Is it intended just for the cool kids?

I saw a post from 2015 saying its range was like 220 miles but the recharge time on house current was 52 hours. Even if both are twice as good now, the limits on road trips and the lack of a wall plug for most anyone living without an indoor garage seems like a deal breaker for most of the public. There are some small number of charging stations around, generally requiring a separate purchase of something expensive, but even those take a couple of hours.

What I'm saying is that all you get for your money is your basic station car and maybe something for soccer moms during the week as the weekend is for charging.

Yet the company announced ramped up 24 hour production and a quarter million per year output target, and I just don't see that many people buying it, and I sure hope there isn't some enormous subsidy from government for that.

Anybody have one or a thought about this?

Last edited by Total Noob; September 2nd, 2017 at 03:15 AM.
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  #2  
Old September 3rd, 2017, 04:21 AM
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zipulrich zipulrich is offline
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I see them on the roads around here. My thoughts? Meh.

Do folks need a Tesla? No one really needs a Mercedes. Or a Range Rover. Or a Jaguar. But those companies seem to do a decent business regardless.

The average new home purchase price in the USA is less than the cost of a Ferrari. Yet there are plenty of them on the road (the cars, not the houses).

So I guess what I'm saying is.....what was the question??
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  #3  
Old September 3rd, 2017, 11:22 AM
Ned Seagoon Ned Seagoon is offline
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That recharge time quoted is from an ordinary power outlet, however using a Tesla supercharge point it can be recharged in around 20 minutes.

There is a local dentist who has a practice here on the Sunshine Coast and another up at Hervey Bay, he spends a couple of days each week at each of the practices, he has Solar panels on the roof of each practice, and while he is drilling the sun is filling his tank. Sounds OK to me.

I have on on my shopping list for when I win the lottery.

Last edited by Ned Seagoon; September 3rd, 2017 at 11:26 AM.
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  #4  
Old September 3rd, 2017, 03:50 PM
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See a lot of them around here too. There is a charging station for a dozen vehicles just up the road. It's about halfway between Toronto and Muskoka so works well for the wealthy people who can afford both the car and a cottage in Canada's prime spot.
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  #5  
Old September 11th, 2017, 06:38 PM
Total Noob Total Noob is offline
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Quote:
Originally Posted by Ned Seagoon View Post
That recharge time quoted is from an ordinary power outlet, however using a Tesla supercharge point it can be recharged in around 20 minutes.
Tesla sent me its online estimator, and it tells a very different story about the speed of supercharging. https://www.tesla.com/models

According to the estimator, a full charge after 250 miles, which is just about the range of the vehicle, takes 58 minutes, assuming there is an available pump. I know I don't want to wait a full hour after every 3.5 or so hours of driving, especially if it there is weather, and again assuming I can drive right up to the pump.

Also, I'm really concerned for women that might be sitting there in the cold and dark waiting on a fillup for a long time. It may not be safe to be wherever the pumps are for a full hour.

Meanwhile, my Prius has a 400 mile range and fills up in about 4 minutes, and it is unlikely I have to wait an hour to access the pump.

Turning to where the pumps are, I noted there are no superchargers in my county, and the one in the next county over is so far away that I could not make it there and back on a charge, much less back again for a refill.

I'm looking at the online map of stations, and they mostly seem to be placed near major highways, and they are placed about the full range of the car apart, so basically a driver is simply aiming to get from one station to the next to complete any trip of any significant distance, so forget any scenic routes, assuming of course the absence of the kind of bumper to bumper traffic that prevents a user from getting the perfect-conditiion range advertised on the car.

I reached a salesman from Tesla to ask what the procedure is for charging if you don't have a close in charging station or a garage with a socket, especially if you have to get out of the way of a hurricane bearing down on you, and really don't have an hour or seven hours to kill juicing up to comply with an evacuation order. So far, he declined to answer.
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  #6  
Old October 18th, 2018, 04:44 PM
Total Noob Total Noob is offline
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I return to this topic as our regular gas car crapped out and we were enticed to look at a Honda Clarity, also a plug-in car with the somewhat unique status of being an effort to be all things to all people. It also has a hybrid engine to go with rechargeable batteries.

Honda pitches it with the claim that electricity is cheaper than gas. I don't see how that is possible.

The Honda staff told me the car has a 48 mile range on a 40 kilowatt charge (that takes 12 hours) when operating on electric. It also told me the car gets about 48 mpg when operating on gas.

So 40 kilowatt hours is exactly the same as a gallon of gas. As I pay 20 cents per kw hour for house current and $3 per gallon, that means the 48 miles on electric costs me $8 and the 48 miles on gas costs me $3.

I'm also not too clear about the carbon footprint benefits. We are warned about using power during the day during the summer because that requires the power company to use its most expensive and dirtiest generators to keep the A/C going in the community without brownouts. The coal from those generators comes from mines that have had their pollution prevention responsibilities dramatically reduced by Trump.

I sought out similar info from Tesla, which, according to Wikipedia, has a 100 kw battery and gets about 315 miles of range. If that's the case, the mileage is way better than the Honda but I get the same roughly 7 miles per dollar on fuel either way, and of course, buying gas is not nearly as much hassle as buying electricity, especially on road trips.

Honestly, I'm not seeing electric powered cars being cheaper, much less better or more convenient.

Last edited by Total Noob; October 18th, 2018 at 04:56 PM.
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  #7  
Old October 20th, 2018, 01:11 PM
Ned Seagoon Ned Seagoon is offline
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However a few solar panels on the roof means you can charge your electric car for free, but there is very little you can do at home to keep your hydrocarbon fueled car running for free.
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  #8  
Old October 21st, 2018, 05:40 AM
Ned Seagoon Ned Seagoon is offline
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Quote:
Originally Posted by Total Noob View Post
Honestly, I'm not seeing electric powered cars being cheaper, much less better or more convenient.

Improvements to manufacturing methods and economies of scale have resulted in almost all modern consumer items coming down in price after a period of time.


The currently available electric cars are certainly much better for the shorter trips in that they can be fueled from renewable sources (solar and the like), they produce almost no pollution or noise and can be automatically controlled, thus reducing the risk to human life.


The shorter trips that they are ideal for include shopping, dropping the kids to school and getting to work. (Things most of us do every day) However use on annual holidays or visiting friends or relatives in distant states is currently inconvenient. I believe this will eventuality be solved, especially when fossil fuels are so depleted that their cost is prohibitive.
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  #9  
Old January 14th, 2019, 07:32 PM
Total Noob Total Noob is offline
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In today's news:

https://www.nytimes.com/2019/01/13/b...tric-cars.html
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  #10  
Old January 17th, 2019, 01:26 PM
Ned Seagoon Ned Seagoon is offline
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I see they have announced that a RHD version of the Electric Kona Hyundai will be introduced into Australia shortly, I believe a few LHD versions are already here to test the market, but none in my area. https://practicalmotoring.com.au/car...ectric-review/

I guess this will beat the Tesla 3 into this country, and at a similar price. Anyone in the US seen or driven one? Are they any good?
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  #11  
Old January 19th, 2019, 08:53 PM
Total Noob Total Noob is offline
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Quote:
Originally Posted by Ned Seagoon View Post
However a few solar panels on the roof means you can charge your electric car for free,
This is a yes and no. In our county and I believe all over the US, home solar panels such as ours produce DC, which means that unless homeowners buy an inverter and batteries, they are selling their entire production to the power company for inversion under a program called net metering. Then we buy grid power at the same price. So it seems like there is no actual cost, but in reality it is still a separate and conscious purchase of power from the power company. just like any other purchase, and there is an out of pocket result.

Our situation is really analogous to the case of the dairy farmer who drinks his own milk. It isn't really free because he is losing the sale price on what he drinks; he is losing the money from the sale. In those many places where milk prices are subsidized, the farmer actually loses money by drinking milk from his farm that he could sell at one price and then buy back in the supermarket for a lower price.

Quote:
Originally Posted by Ned Seagoon View Post
but there is very little you can do at home to keep your hydrocarbon fueled car running for free.
Agreed. I don't think there's anything to be done. There's some talk of alternate fuels, but with prices dipping and OPEC in shambles, I think it will be a while before easy access to petroleum products will evaporate.

Last edited by Total Noob; January 19th, 2019 at 08:57 PM.
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  #12  
Old January 19th, 2019, 09:10 PM
Total Noob Total Noob is offline
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Quote:
Originally Posted by Ned Seagoon View Post
Improvements to manufacturing methods and economies of scale have resulted in almost all modern consumer items coming down in price after a period of time.


The currently available electric cars are certainly much better for the shorter trips in that they can be fueled from renewable sources (solar and the like), they produce almost no pollution or noise and can be automatically controlled, thus reducing the risk to human life.


The shorter trips that they are ideal for include shopping, dropping the kids to school and getting to work. (Things most of us do every day) However use on annual holidays or visiting friends or relatives in distant states is currently inconvenient. I believe this will eventuality be solved, especially when fossil fuels are so depleted that their cost is prohibitive.
I think you are generally correct, but that has not been Tesla's experience. The work to build a car has proved too meticulous for robots, so building them has been given back to workers, and the jobs for robot makers have started to disappear.

I am not a fan of Self-driving cars. In the short run, these are drones for car bombs. In the middle run, they cannot yet handle the complexity of traffic, especially when there is a dynamic condition such as a flag man or unseen road damage. In the long run, there is no consensus as to who is legally liable for accidents, whether the software is subject to being hacked, and whether maps and GPS controls the cars use are accurate up to the minute. In my own experience, Waze and Google Maps, both of which have dynamic updating, are frequently unreliable, recommending round about routes that are ridiculously congested (we always get a recommendation to drive through NYC rather than around it) and inefficient (we always get recommendations to stay on large highways rather than take local shortcuts). At least once I was directed onto private property that was not only posted with a no trespassing sign, but another indicating the owner was well armed and ready to deal with trespassers quite personally and permanently. On other occasions, we were routed through unsafe neighborhoods.

When the Knight Rider car is here, I will reconsider. Until then, I prefer a human driver.
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  #13  
Old January 20th, 2019, 09:44 AM
Ned Seagoon Ned Seagoon is offline
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Quote:
Originally Posted by Total Noob View Post
This is a yes and no. In our county and I believe all over the US, home solar panels such as ours produce DC, which means that unless homeowners buy an inverter and batteries, they are selling their entire production to the power company for inversion under a program called net metering. Then we buy grid power at the same price. So it seems like there is no actual cost, but in reality it is still a separate and conscious purchase of power from the power company. just like any other purchase, and there is an out of pocket result.

You have missed the point, nothing to stop a car owner installing batteries, charging them from the solar during the day and using the batteries to charge their car at night, all completely independent to the power network, if they wish.
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  #14  
Old January 20th, 2019, 09:51 AM
Ned Seagoon Ned Seagoon is offline
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Originally Posted by Total Noob View Post
I am not a fan of Self-driving cars.

Neither am I, however some automation can make the life for the driver more comfortable.

Example: Current day cruise control, holds the car at a constant speed until driver intervention occurs.

Automation could act the same way as far a direction is concerned, keep the car in the lane till the driver acts to move out of it to, say, overtake.

And so on.
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  #15  
Old January 21st, 2019, 05:30 PM
Total Noob Total Noob is offline
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Originally Posted by Ned Seagoon View Post
You have missed the point, nothing to stop a car owner installing batteries, charging them from the solar during the day and using the batteries to charge their car at night, all completely independent to the power network, if they wish.
In theory yes, practically it is hard to fathom.

Each 5x3 foot panel produces about 330 watts/hour in good sun and it takes 100 kwh to juice a Tesla car, so it takes some combination of panels and sun hours totalling 300 for a fill up. In the winter, 6 hours of sun is a lot, so you are looking at about 50 panels generating about 16.67 kw/h to get a full tank from zero in a day.

Include the amount of real estate you are planning to use (750 sq ft in the example) the installation cost for the panels andbattery, the wiring from the battery to the car, and the non-availability of the car while juicing to get the cost of "free" electricity.

I appreciate the sacrifice by early adopters but the Betamax experiment remains a cautionary tale.

Last edited by Total Noob; January 21st, 2019 at 05:37 PM.
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